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[–] abattoirdaydream 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I like that spotted draft. But I gotta say, while your enthusiasm is nice to see, if the statue in your other post is even close to accurate to a true Karst, (and it was made 100 years after the purchase of Lippiza, long enough to change the breed quite a bit.) then I highly doubt the Karst has much if any draft blood. In fact the Lipizzaner (although spanished up, and probably a bit shorter than previously) is probably actually the closest thing to a true Karst still living, because: "The Karl II bought the village of Lipizza with the surrounding Karstland in 1580. His aim was to supply the Vienna Riding School with first class riding horses. He bought an established stud of Karst horses together with the village Lipizza."

The original Karst was prized for a riding horse, and for it's longevity. Pretty much every draft breed was originally not bred for riding, but field work, then moved into heavy battle later. The article doesn't suggest that the Karst was a work horse, but quite the contrary, being fast and favored for Roman horse racing. Chariot racing yes, but that was larger, riding types that were fast and had endurance at speed. Something almost no draft types have.

Now the Tolfetano horses, are in roughly the right place, and type to mix with a bit of spanish, and austrian breeding and you would get a 15-16hh horse with decent bone, a fine head and endurance under saddle, as shown in the statue and in descriptions. And don't forget Lipizzaners ARE, or were, war horses, with endurance and strength. Now imagine something like a Lipizzaner, a bit heavier, whose color didn't matter, pre-getting bought up by Karl II.

Maybe something like this?


[–] mxcviel [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Well, I have something for you :) look at that picture:

You are correct, Karl II bought an established stud of Karst horses together with Lipica (Lipizza in german) village, but that statue in Venice is 100 years older than first Lipizzaner was born - his mother was Karst horse and father was Andalusian horse.

At that time Habsburg Emperor Maximillian II wanted an elite horse for show-up, Habsburgs ruled both Spain and Austria.. so he brought Spanish Andalusians to Austria and his brother Archduke Karl II chose the summer manor of the Trieste bishop in Lipica for the location in 1578.

Before they brought first Spanish horses to breed with Karst horses there in 1581, they did an extensive work on landscape. This is important fact, so I've translated this in English: "In Lipica the meadows and pastures were arranged. For this purpose, the soil of numerous Karst valleys has been brought, so Lipica is still called Green oasis on the stone Karst. Then they started to afforestate. All this was sort of arranged in five years, because as early as 1585 the first manager of the stud farm, Franc Jurko, transmitted the message that a further and unhindered existence of the stud farm was ensured."

=> so different environment was needed for Spanish horses than native ones. This means that native Karst horses were stronger and more endurable, like any old war horse was - smart, fast but also tough. As Karst is Slovene-Slavic word and that parts were always more connected with ports in Trieste and Venice than to inland, I'm sure that the name for the same animal was also Venetic horse. And that name you can follow even before Roman times, when Celts had home in this places.

So that picture from the old bronze belt buckle from 6-5th century BC shows clash of cultures in this places. Right horse has small feet, that is good for soft grass and desert, but not for stone, uneven ground. The left horse has all the proportions of old Karst horse, or Venetic if you like that name better. Sadly I've slept through all my history classes, as I was more interested in natural science, so I have no clue what swastika sign on that horse is doing there in 500BC in this places, but interesting in that picture is interaction between horses - they seem to be only important intelligent forces to be there and in some conversation, and both humans more like puppets sitting on them. As history repeats maybe I didn't miss much in that boring history classes after all. :)