[–] ShitArchon [S] 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

A minor figure in Atheism Plus, Zvan's main claim to fame is being "Danielle" Muscato's only friend.

The idea that neo-Nazis are only now after a public punch going to act out with violence is absurd and ahistorical. Nazis in various club scenes have long used violence or the threat of violence. Responding in kind made them clear out, not escalate.

TIL nobody tried assassinating Hitler. Notice how Zvan doesn't have any hyperlinks in this part--in other words, she can't even scrounge up any evidence to support her claim.

Sanity in the comments:

You really don’t get it: free speech is not “the solution”, it’s the prerequisite for all social solutions except authoritarianism. Protecting the freedom of speech of those who we find repugnant is the only way we can protect our freedom of speech, of exchanging opinions, of confronting dangerous thoughts.

cf Neal Boortz

Punch nazis, stomp on their free speech. Besides making them into victims (go and read about Horst Wessel) you drive them underground, you make them forbidden and thus much more enticing to wayward young people who are the main breeding ground of their ideas. You create an underground comfortable zone for their evangelization.

On a related note, Red Ribbon/DARE programs resulted in increased drug use among American students.

Free speech, much like freedom, is not a fetish, it is not a moral question, it is the basis of a society which is not dominated by the powerful, be they nazis, priests or politicians. Tell them you are willing to forego free speech, and they’ll gladly oblige. Tell them you have chosen violent confrontation, and they will step into the battlefield against you. And you’ll lose both times.

See also: Altemeyer's The Authoritarians.

The idea is not to be able to engage those people to convince them, much as atheists don’t engage religionists in order to convert them, but rather to enlighten people who might not be aware that there are alternative ways of looking at things, that what they hear is under debate, not something to be swallowed whole.

Mauricio is referencing Dr. Peter Boghossian's Street Epistemology method.

OTOH, if atheists and skeptics and antinazis forego freedom of speech and consider it a luxury, if you can believe that ideas can flow when people are forced to be silent, that this is not even essential for freedom of thought, perhaps the battle is already lost. They will not even let you scream in the camps. And your children will not even question them.

See also North Korea.