[–] TheAntiZealot 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Kind of a weak argument, Schopenhauer. Humans are the most trainable animal on Earth. Ever seen synchronized swimming? Dolphins come close, but not quite.

Doctors, scientists, soldiers, engineers... et cetera.

A dumb animal cannot be trained. A dumb human cannot be trained. This is why we have prisons and zoos and leave the wild in the wild. Training is hard, not easy.

And frankly, Religion doesn't really train people to perfection the way that other trainers do. And if the training is supposed to be purely psychological indoctrination, then governments the world over have done a more effective job and even Religion needs Government support to approach that level of homogeneity.

Government, through pain and song, through execution and parade, through guilt and pride, is the best trainer of the masses. Where a religion utilizes these tools, it will enhance its ability to train its people.

So, either on the refinement of specific behaviors (think surgeon or Cirque du Soleil) or on the "market share" of reverence (cult of personality or aversion to criticize) government beats religion every time. And some could argue that corporations beat religion most of the time, too (see Saturn car company).

[–] Gringojones 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

So your argument is that its not training because it doesn't produce the results that other types of training on small groups of people produces?

[–] kalgon 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

His argument is that religion has historically been badly beaten by secular state(s) several times already when it comes to mass indoctrination

[–] 83839433 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

How we really think is really our religion. He said our religion composes what we believe and that's backwards. What we hold as true makes up our true religion

Everything else is a sharade, like this quote. The guy probably is called an 'atheist' which case him facing his certain death would then consider what? My guess absolute horror. I have a point and it is this: discussing the finer cosmological points, where the information is derived such and such is fine,, good even.

The Buddha said he taught the identification of dukkha(an unsatisfactory nature even more fundamental than stress: an unsatisfactory nature then) and cessation of it. In doing so other understandsings, values, observances come to be.

[–] kalgon 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The highest ideal a person holds, consciously or unconsciously, that's their god

And the rational mind likes to fall in love with its own creations

...

Peterson said that, but it's not from him it originally comes from Jung for the first line, and christian religion/catholic church for the second

https://youtu.be/EyYdGiJpyXk?t=1m

Of course it's always debatable but something rings true here, to me

[–] Gringojones 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

The problem, and reason religion won't go away, is that the majority of people need to be controlled.

[–] Captain_Faggot 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Ah you mean like all those well behaved islamists and jews. /s

[–] kalgon 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Because you think education in general is any different?

You think because you are supposedly trained in critical thinking, at best, you're off the hook?

Every form of education is a means of control, it's a training

You know what a human who didn't receive any form of education, training, whether religious or secular looks like?

Looks like a wild beast

...

What's so different between religious fanatics and chain of command yes men?

yes men say yes, that's why they're promoted, they don' t discuss orders, they are deemed reliable

You people think religion is necessarily the worst, it's not

All those fancy pants with all their degrees, all those pompous silicon valley phd niggers, I trust them less than a fucking commissar

As a matter of fact I have more faith in mormons, despite all their flaws, because at least I know where their bullshit starts and stops

[–] 1Iron_Curtain 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Religion is based on mythos, something all humans have been enamored with from the earliest time(myth is the easier way to explain the unknown).

The contradiction with religion explaining the unknown(sort of the contradictory part of religion) is that one must just have faith, which might be fine when it comes to believing in a first cause, but which usually does not help in explaining the complexities of things found throughout nature and society.

Religion is an organized system that uses mythos and its "explanation" and interaction with mythos as an excuse to build up a dogmatic and doctrinal system to "guard" and "guide" the people abiding by the specific creed made explicit in religious dogma and validated by its doctrinal system(usually descending from "consistent" series of divine revelations). Religion is sort of a natural part of people's psychology. It only becomes unhealthy when it is legalized and when it is "mass-produced."

Religion is shallow these days because it lacks a proper metaphysical basis(mostly because the premises and foundations religion lie upon cannot be deducted but can only be reduced to analogy or by fleeing to Occam Razor's to justify a hastily made conclusion), its lacks a turn toward the natural/nature(Germanic folk myths do though)(the natural is excluded from the divine and Godly(some blame this on Enlightenment thinking, but I blame it on religion's anti-Scientific thinking too), and they confuse the manmade with the divine too much(ala everything is infused with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and thus it must be legitimate which is just an emotionalized way to justify the subjective as objective).

In Catholicism this has led to Papal Tyranny over the last 200 years(Papal Corruption started in a hardcore fashion around the end of the Scholastic age sometime in the 14th century), in Protestantism it leads to the praise and adulation of secularism and progressivism as the end all of humanity(its rests on the principle of Christian egalitarianism), in Islam it leads each man to believe he is somehow an abstracted deity because he is an embodiment of the word of the prophet Mohammed, in Judaism It less to the legalistic justification that the anthropomorphic, which the Jew represents par excellence, and reification of the divine as the highest point(manifested in God "choosing" the Jews as his special people).

In the African and Australoid religions, it leads to the spirit world becoming intertwined with the physical world in such a fetishized sense that emotionalism and sensualism are lauded as the highest points of divinity(most base expression of religion in mankind). Only in the Eastern religions(Buddhism(transcendence above the illusion of reality to true internal self), Confucianism(transcendence of self to the ethical order), Shintoism(transcendence to the ancestors), Native Americans to a lesser extent(some weird blend of Eastern religions and Animism(mimicking Central Asian Tengriism; sky worship) does one find that religion has a freeing principle from it that frees itself from man and from oneself(why Schoepenhauer admired the Eastern religions), but Schoepenhauer forget to critique that these religions only saw man as trapped in himself and thus trapped him to the societies and cultural norms surrounding them(less of a problem then the trap religion usually provides to the Westerner, Asiatic, and the primitive races. Schoepenhauer should have critiqued the Eastern religions as metaphysically shallow(deriving any depth it contained from circular logic/tautologies, inverted materialism, and juxtaposing polar thoughts to come to conclusions about truth(oversimplified logic).

It lacked a genuine connection and turn to nature as that found in Germanic religions, applying deductive reasoning of the natural to the complicated/organized/irrational design of things in nature, and the teleological order of things so that nature on its natural course(unlike society) contained in it the germs for an exponential separation in the level of development between different organisms/types of species(great Chain of Being idea). Religion has largely become an instrument(thanks to Unitarianism/Universalism) of the worldwide movement to bring the races together and unify them in society under a secular order which they should heed(religious has become an instrument of the rising secular tyranny/multi-culturalism of our era under the auspices of being humanitarianism/egalitarianism).

This invalidates much of the dogmatic and doctrinal traditions of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, which lies, in the case of Christianity, with the Bible(some truths can be ascertained from the Bible), in the case of Judaism(the Talmud, a lesser form of truth almost equivalent to the Quran in its ethnocentrism), and in the case of Islam, the Quran(the lowest form of truth in the Abrahamic religions and its based on emotionalism and cultural prejudice(the same can be found in the Bible(Old Testament mainly) when the Jews destroy other non-Jewish races as part of God's will).

The only positive aspects in the Abrahamic religions largely lies in the Roman and Germanic aspects that have heavily influenced Christianity(stoicism, pragmatism, rational perspective, naturalism, and the split between reason and the metaphysical(albeit certain metaphysical truths can be ascertained through the dual workings of reason and analogy abstracting from the complex design of nature and nature's random and irrational movements).

The egalitarian/humanitarian aspects of Christianity are largely Western European in descent(Orthodox don't believe in it, but Catholics and Protestants do) and it is largely a product of the Western European's moral aptitude(being a man of a higher reasoning is more inclined to have compassion on those not like him or amongst his kind).

[–] TheAntiZealot 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Fun read, thanks!