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[–] NewAccountOldGoat 3 points 9 points (+12|-3) ago 

Kind of ignoring the idea of free will aren't we?


[–] ANGRY_Hippopotamus 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

How does the notion of free will changes the argument?

If you could stop a defenseless person from being harmed, would you go "its the attacker's free will, so I will do nothing until after the harm is done"? This is, purportedly, what god does.


[–] chirogonemd 1 point 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

You are applying a very human perspective on these events to the being of God. You are talking about defying universal principles of the creation of man and the universe to satisfy a moral concept of your own empathic processes. God, at no point, ever promised any one of his creations zero suffering, not until kingdom come. Which it hasn't. Free will opens up the world to the influence of evil, making everyone vulnerable. Nowhere does God suggest we are all immune to it. This idea that God should do this is simply a human one. An entitlement mentality for something you never had title to. The world and life are suffering. Not until the kingdom of Heaven is there the type of existence you suggest.

This is Earth. Not Heaven.


[–] registereduser1 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Free will is proof there is no god.

The fairy tale says the god character is omniscient, meaning all knowing. If this fairy tale character knows everything that ever was, is, or will be, you have no free will. Your imaginary friend already saw what you are going to do, you can not change it.


[–] Piroko ago 

And there being no god is not proof that we have free will.

Causality reigns supreme. We are deterministic beings made of deterministic things.

"Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills." -Arthur Schopenhauer


[–] Piroko ago  (edited ago)

Free will is an illusion. Your trajectory through spacetime is as deterministic as a cup pushed off a table.

You are made of deterministic things behaving deterministically in a deterministic void.


[–] Artofchoke [S] 6 points 0 points (+6|-6) ago 

Free will is a religious concept with no rational basis. It doesn't exist.


[–] ninjatacos 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

to say "free will is a religious concept" i assume you are trying to provide an arguement for determinism.

To make such an arguement, are you attempting to entice someone to change their mind? You disprove your own assertion if this is the case.

And if you are not concerned with changing minds, just trying to tell people they are dumb for believing free will? well in that scenario, you have made a value judgement, thay belief in "determinism" is preferrable to belief in "free will". This also undermines your point because in a determinist universe value systems do not exist.

Of course free will exists. that doesnt mean people develope and use it. Free will doesnt exist innately. many in the world behave as instinctual and automatically as animals. but the entire point of propoganda is to influence people, through their own free will, into accepting false beliefs.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 



[–] NewAccountOldGoat 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

You could argue religion is a concept with no rational basis as well. But free will is part of many religious doctrines.


[–] Nickodemus ago 

How do you prove that? Not the question of religion, but that of free will not existing.

The way i think, we are constantly presented with choices. You can choose yes, no, or other. "Other" could be anything at all. Yes, shoot the rapist. No, do not shoot the rapist, Other, join the rapist, call the cops on the rapist, run over the rapist with your lawn mower, etc. etc. Infinitely variable - thus, you have free will.

Please, explain how the logic of lack of free will exists for you. Give me something to consider.