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[–] vjack 0 points 29 points (+29|-0) ago 

What was annoying about it, and what do you suggest we change here? Suggesting that we don't upvoat "religion hating content" is probably not going to be agreed on by the majority because we recognize that criticizing religion is necessary. And I know I can only speak for myself here, but I have little interest in quotes, memes, or images. Others will certainly disagree. So the problem is that there will likely be little (if any) agreement about the sort of content that would "make this atheism better."

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[–] john_the_fisherman 1 points 21 points (+22|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Taking a cue from /r/Christianity would be something I'd like to see. Sure it was a Christian - oriented sub, but it was filled with atheists and they were never shunned, belittled, or down vote censored. It was a place where questions could be asked, where theology could be discussed (with the perspectives of both Christians and athiests), etc.

It was also focused more on the good Christians caused and the problem facing christians as opposed to the bad athiests did or flaws in their argument. It would be great to see the same thing here where content is focused on the positivity of atheism

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[–] pm_me_your_boobs_pls 0 points 15 points (+15|-0) ago 

Yes, instead of hating the religion for the sake of hating, spamming insults to religions, why not make it a civil forum for discussion of diverse ideologies with constructive criticism but respect the opinions of the others.

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

I totally agree, more positivity instead of the old hate way from /r/atheism !

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[–] Slumberfunk 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

That's the place where I got shadowbanned after having respectfully asked a Catholic priest how he felt about the pedophilia and then about how he felt about the Intelligence Squared debate with Fry and Hitchens.

Does shadowbanning exist on voat?

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[–] VCUBNFO 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

The difference is that Christians are able to openly criticize atheism in public. This is something we can't do as atheists.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] vjack 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

You've never changed your mind about something in response to criticism? I certainly have. In fact, if I had not encountered effective criticism of my Christian beliefs back when I was a Christian, I suspect I'd still be one.

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[–] Crensch 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

You can't convert someone by criticizing their beliefs, they will just feel attacked.

I don't believe you can support that statement, and, anecdotally, I have changed people's minds by attacking them and their religion. I posit that you're saying this as nothing more than a thought-terminating cliche - it's nothing you've ever considered, as the claim itself is absurd.

It's way more effective to show what's good about your belief system and why people should share it with you.

That's what they try to do. It works - for the credulous. We don't want people to switch because we're awesome, we want them to switch because their religion is poison. If the former happened, it'd be easy for another religion to seem more awesome. If the latter happens, it's more likely that they'll see religious thinking for what it is, stupid, hateful, and poisonous.

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[–] Epona 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Exactly! Great point

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

So very true, this is the thought process that we need to have! We have to be better than them, for them to want to follow us.

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Yeah i see, i don't have a "plan" for what to do but i would like to see less jokes on Christianity and other religions because that is not what i see atheism being. I see atheism talking about everything else than hating on religion. Yes i can see that religion is something we all disagree with but why not show content here where atheism "wins" or have discussions about atheism and the future?

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[–] vjack 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I don't think you'll have much luck discouraging others from sharing content critical of religion, but you can certainly contribute more pro-atheism content and see how it fares. To the degree that people here are tired of the other stuff, it might do well.

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[–] SquarebobSpongebutt 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Suggesting that we don't upvoat "religion hating content" is probably not going to be agreed on by the majority because we recognize that criticizing religion is necessary.

From my opinion, there is a huge difference between "religion is wrong because of x,y, and z" and "anyone who believes in God is an idiot". The former is perfectly fine. The latter should be allowed to sink to the bottom.

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[–] vjack 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I agree. I'm not terribly optimistic that you'll keep the personal insults out of here as the numbers of users increase, but I think that would be nice. The difference between reasoned criticism of someone's beliefs and name calling is an important one.

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[–] WanderingDenna 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

I'm hoping it'll be better here, too. I mostly lurked over there, but with things feeling different on Voat in general, I think I might contribute more...

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I am usually a lurker too, but i could not even lurk on the old /r/atheism it became to silly for me. So i really hope this will be a place i can be proud of spending a lot of time :)

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[–] WanderingDenna 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Me too! :)

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[–] ObeyTheFist 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Maybe we need a /v/theismhate for people who want to vent.

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Ooo, thats not a bad suggestion that would make everything so much easier! Would you do the honor or should i make it?

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[–] GentleCat 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Less circlejerking, we all know why we are here, thanks.

I think that it would be better to throw in content that don't try to ridiculize the other's way of thinking, but things that help people to focus on critical thinking: explanations, origins of this phylosophy, etc.

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[–] disturbedbassist 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

This. I think the sidebar could be utilized to archive common circlejerk discussions like "Why did you de-convert" or something so we only have to have the conversations once (or at least as little as possible).

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Yes, yes yes. This is exacly what we need creative and critical thinking! Great suggestion.

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[–] owsley 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Can we make this more of a discussion about atheism and religion, and less of an anti-religious circle jerk

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Completely agree, if we continue the circle jerk of /r/atheism we will be looked at as hateful people and that is not what we are right?

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[–] owsley 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

No that's not what we are

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[–] RedditSucksNow 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Religion deserves to be mocked for the same reason that racism deserves to be mocked. Any stupid philosophy deserves no respect. It's unnatural for me and many atheists to treat the supernatural with respect.

Additionally, by trying to enforce community standards that discourage the mocking of religion, you're denying a lot of young atheists an outlet for their frustration at living in a religious area (or having a religious family). Where do you suggest these young and frustrated atheists vent their frustration?

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Hmm, they have already made a subverse for this, it is called /v/theismhate or something like that. Where people can mock religion and so forth. But mocking religion is not going to help much if you want progression. Honestly would you respect me and take my view if the first thing i said to you was "You suck and your beliefs suck!" i know i wouldn't.

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[–] RedditSucksNow 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

it is called /v/theismhate or something like that

As you know from reddit, the people who camped on the best names had the largest subscriber bases. People aren't going to find 'theismhate' in a search on 'atheism' which dooms it to fail. (BTW, that subverse doesn't even exist.)

But mocking religion is not going to help much if you want progression.

Lots of former theists posted on /r/atheism to say that a simple meme was their gateway to atheism because it made them think things like: "Why do atheists think this is funny?" and "What exactly are they trying to say by this?" It prompted them to try to think about how such a thing couldn't be true or funny. And they failed.

Your example insult is too generic to be of any effect, and it's not the kind of thing I'm talking about. This is.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I really don't know what to say here, i disagree on all charges. First we do not want this atheism subverse to be like the one on reddit, we express our feelings of disaffection of that subverse about the way it handled the hate towards religious people. And if you think that we cant have a discussion with theists without being in a insane asylums, this might not be the place for you...

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] facepaint 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Well for any decision to really matter, you will need to sub owner & mods to clearly establish rules and enforce them. If that doesn't work, create your own atheism sub with policies that you want and enforce them.

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[–] EpicLoaf [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I could try to contact the owners and see if they are up for some change or rules and establishment if not i can create /v/actualatheism, hehe.

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