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[–] Stavon 0 points 30 points (+30|-0) ago 

Seems nice in theory, let's see how it works out.

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[–] VernacularOracle 0 points 26 points (+26|-0) ago 

Can see SJWs pushing their shite to the front page with this. Nobody will be able to downvoat the senseless stuff because that would mean wasting your brain cells getting into debates with those who won't use their own brains in such subs. We'll see how it works though but it might not be tested against the shite subs since they aren't as strong yet.

[–] [deleted] 1 points 22 points (+23|-1) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] 0x5f3759df 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

Yes, and they get to set the limit to who is allowed to downvoat their posts. What could possibly go wrong?

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

We can't have it both ways, either the site is tough on brigades or submissions are easy to downvote.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] DanielFlamino 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

TBH, that example sounds like it's part of a moderator's duty.

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[–] contributorX 4 points 24 points (+28|-4) ago  (edited ago)

So, um, when the hell am I going to be able to downvote? I've been a member here for two months, kind of contributing the whole time, and I still don't have the right to downvote. This is starting to irritate me a little.

Do you just not want people to downvote? Is that the goal? Because I've had to let stuff slide that really deserved a downvote. I really don't have a whole lot of time to dedicate to amassing enough time in every single sub that I frequent to gain the "right" to downvote.

One thing that you may or may not have considered is the fact that your new rules on the power of the almighty downvote is that you are creating a clique of hardcore users that have that ability, and you are making it very difficult for people like me to contribute further to the site by continually raising the threshold for contribution points.

It has taken me 2 friggin months to get to 83 CCPs, and now you tell me when I get to 100, that won't be enough. Now I have to meet the minimum threshold in every single sub that I wish to downvote in? I would describe myself as a casual user of this site. Its not exactly like I have unlimited time to stare at a computer screen all day trying to amass imaginary internet points. I have real stuff to do, in the real world too. I was really hoping that another 17 points would grant me the right to occasionally deal out a much needed downvote every now and then. Guess not.

You know what, Atko? I support every single thing that you have done with this site, except for this.

IF YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO DOWNVOTE, THEN REMOVE THE DOWNVOTE FUNCTION ALTOGETHER!

Edit.....And while we are on the subject of downvotes, how many contribution points do I need to downvote in this subverse, because I would downvote this, if I could.

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[–] Genghis_Khan 1 points 10 points (+11|-1) ago 

Note that even though the feature is not enabled, the default number is 0 in all subs (this one is 10). Also (though I'm sure you know) you need to 100 comment points site wide to downvoat at all, not in each sub.

I completely understand the frustration though, but in certain more "sensitive" subs, this is at least an attempt to prevent brigading.

Remember that you should only use downvoats for genuine shitposts and rule-breaks. In the (very good) example of the WTF you see in /v/conspiracy, I (humbly) think the real solution is don't use that sub if you find that the garbage is constantly at the top. Even if you could downvoat it, how much of an effect would that really have apart from your satisfaction?

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[–] contributorX 3 points 10 points (+13|-3) ago 

I'm quite capable of determining what I should and should not downvote, thank you very much! But alas, I do not yet have that power. Meaning that I can only partially participate in this site. And don't tell me what parts of the site that I should or should not frequent. How is that even part of this discussion? Come to think of it, it's a good thing that I don't have the power to downvote. Because I'd downvote this entire mess!

And that is my entire point. Atko did this without any community discussion, and I can't downvote it. I can get up on a soapbox and rant to obviously no avail, because the circle-jerk is in full swing at this point, but I can't downvote a single thing, even things in this thread, which richly deserve a downvote!

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[–] Average-Random-Joe 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Even if you could downvoat it, how much of an effect would that really have apart from your satisfaction?

The same but opposite effect of the upvoat. What is the point of Voat if not for the votes? I mean, I thought that was they reason for the pun? You are downplaying votes on a site named in pun for the voting?

Remember that you should only use downvoats for genuine shitposts and rule-breaks.

So there is a predetermined set of uses that a down or up voat should be used for?

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[–] gruvn 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago 

Queue the angry mob of "dedicated users" to sharpen their pitchforks, and discuss how if all you want is the power to downvoat, then maybe they're not sure they want you around.
I'm finding it exceedingly insular, and not welcoming to new users with different opinions then the norm. Have an upvoat, so you can get closer to the downvoats...

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[–] contributorX 3 points 2 points (+5|-3) ago 

Thanks for the upvote, here's one in return, since its the only thing that I can do. As far as the the angry mob of "dedicated users" goes, it doesn't hurt my feelings a bit. I stand behind my bullshit, unlike some of the people here who delete their comments to escape the dreaded downvote! (you know who you are!)

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[–] Teh_Sauce_Guy 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

...I was here on voat, lurking mostly, like 200 days ago when we had a tiny community and it took me like a week to get downvote rights.

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[–] Code_X 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Yup - I'm at 8 days, not overly heavy use, 100 CP. With you there...

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[–] Amarok 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

One thing that you may or may not have considered is the fact that your new rules on the power of the almighty downvote is that you are creating a clique of hardcore users that have that ability, and you are making it very difficult for people like me to contribute further to the site by continually raising the threshold for contribution points.

Good. That's exactly the point. A large, hardcore group of users in each subverse, composed of the people who were there first, participate the most, and understand the rules better than some downvoting newbie punk. Voting is supposed to be distributed moderation, not agree/disagree. The idea that a new user should have this kind of moderation power on their first visit to a subverse is utterly insane.

This clique of hardcore users is in fact a distributed moderation team. It's better than having a handful of power tripping mods deciding what stays and what goes. It makes votes far more powerful and valuable, and makes community participation absolutely mandatory for anyone who wishes to acquire some of this power.

Shut the fuck up, lurk, learn. Post a few things, make a few comments. If you're a fit for the community, you'll earn your way into in soon enough as long as you have something worthwhile to contribute. If you don't have anything worthwhile to contribute, you won't earn your way in, you won't acquire any moderation/voting power, and that's as it should be. Once you do have that power, you'll be a lot less likely to be an asshole, because a simple account ban forces you to earn your way back into that subverse on a new account all over again. Bad behavior has consequences under this system.

If you don't like a community, then vote with your feet. Unsubscribe and find a better one, or start your own.

Yes, this makes communities more insular. It's the opposite of reddit's problem, where communities are so open that a doubling of subscribers overnight can dilute the content to absolute shit in no time, ruining the community permanently so a bunch of newbies who have done nothing can crash the party like a pack of howling monkeys flinging shit everywhere.

Fuck. Newbies. Trust is to be earned, not freely given. Everyone is a newbie once, earn your way out of it, prove you are worthy of a little trust. If that's too much to ask, reddit is thataway, have fun.

You're over the sitewide limit of 100 ccp, by the way, so you should now be able to downvote in all of the communities that are using default settings, including this one. Use it wisely.

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[–] foshizzle 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Making things tougher. I like it! But what if you're moderating a subverse? Do you need to earn a certain amount of CCP then?

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[–] Figaro 4 points 9 points (+13|-4) ago  (edited ago)

>I like it!

Do you enjoy not being able to fully participate in new subverses?

What if you take up a new hobby and start frequenting a subverse you've never touched?

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[–] 11010 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

You can still submit, comment, and upvote freely. This would prevent brigaders who comes to your subverse just to downvote opposing opinions.

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[–] KiltedKen 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

If I understand completely, someone new can post, upvote, and comment, just not downvote.

That makes the contributing community get their way more than any single newcomer, and helps with bands of newcomers.

I can see this causing an issue if the community is largely anti-newb. For instance, it seems a community could downvote any new posts and become more insular.

Then again, kinder more open communities would be more protected from take over.

Seems like a wash to me.

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[–] Genghis_Khan 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

What if you take up a new hobby and start frequenting a subverse you've never touched?

Start contributing. The very spirit of the idea is that newcomers shouldn't be able to bury things. The real problem is when said sub doesn't already have an active community that is able/willing to upvoat. Then we have stagnation.

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[–] serg 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

New users can't downvoat - that's a good thing. Lurk more and get a feel for the place you're participating in before actively giving things the downvoat.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] brackstone 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

I don't see how that would matter. If you want to be involved in another subverse then why would your first act of going in there be to downvote something? If you're downvoting something that thats been upvoting so much it go to /all then I don't think that's where you belong.

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[–] Figaro 1 points 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

first

I've been a member of this site for 18 days. Eighteen. I still haven't reached 100 CCP.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Both reddit and voat have voting limits for new accounts, it doesn't seem to deter people long.

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[–] internet_nomad 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

I really like this concept. It will stop people from raiding subs and downvoting threads/comments. I hope it leads to more quality contributions from people overall.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] internet_nomad 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Never heard of forum sliding before....care to explain?

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[–] rE1J5aQ5wF54W3HURrH 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago  (edited ago)

I understand the thought behind this, however I think it's going to make the website look even less active than it currently is.

For example, here is this: https://voat.co/v/MeanwhileOnReddit/comments/58174

I can't downvote that because I don't have the required criteria to. It's a ridiculous post and anyone not familiar with this new rule may see it and think only 3 people on the site disagreed with it, as of right now it only has a -3 score. I am sure if myself and others were able to actually weigh in and downvote it, that it'd be a better representation to both lurkers, new people, and those who don't read announcements that we don't want that sort of stupid stuff here.

Currently it just seems like 3 people saw it, downvoted it, and that's it. It doesn't do much in terms of making this place seem active enough to want to join.

EDIT: Speling and werds.

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[–] Genghis_Khan 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

That's been removed. In the future, please contact the mods when you see stuff like that.

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[–] rE1J5aQ5wF54W3HURrH 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Thank you. But at the same time, it goes both ways too with the voting. There are interesting articles in the subs that are active but with very low voting scores. In the infancy of this site I don't think it's wise to restrict how active it appears to be. Not everyone comments or participates in conversion, thus has no voting power. That doesn't mean that they didn't thoroughly enjoy an article posted in /v/news or get a chuckle from something in /v/funny. They can't vote, so these subs are filled with submissions with very low vote scores. To an outsider who isn't aware of the voting system or how this place operates in general it makes it look like a very inactive place.

Just my honest $0.02. I know this place has it's active spots even if the voting scores do very little to reflect it, but others may not know.

I'll stick around regardless.

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[–] killerfrenchfry 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

If it's going to be easier to get a comment deleted than to simply downvoat it, that's going to open the door to all sorts of abuse.

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[–] DanielFlamino 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Well it does display that, as of writing this comment, 18 people have viewed that thread. So, it's not like that info isn't available. However I do get your point.

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[–] Gamerdog6482 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago 

This is awesome, and I feel like it might make brigading more trouble than it's worth for brigaders.

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[–] Hoponmybandwagon 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

At the same time brigaders would have less people downvoting to reduce visibility, putting more pressure on mods.

If the threshold was a tenth of what it is I think it would be far more effective. Most of my IRL friends on reddit have significantly less than 100 karma, and have been participating for years.

They just don't understand how timing, and visibility works. And have other things going on in their lives that means they don't care to, they shouldn't be punished for casual participation.

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[–] Gamerdog6482 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

It isn't punishment. Casual participation doesn't require the ability to downvoat something.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Most of my IRL friends on reddit have significantly less than 100 karma, and have been participating for years.

Seriously? They haven't even 100 comments with positive karma?

At any rate, I don't see it as an issue. If a mod wants to grant casual commentators the right to downvote they can just set the threshold to 10 CCP or something.

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[–] 11010 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

The only thing that's limited is their ability to downvote stuff. I don't think they will care about that. Also, this could be used as a temporary measure to prevent brigade. If your sub got linked on another bigger on, just increase the ccp limit to 100 for a day. Mos of the brigaders will be gone by then.

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[–] killerfrenchfry 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

As much as I agree with the principles behind this, it really strikes me as a solution looking for a problem. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody with 5000 contribution points on circlejerk, or even site-wide for that matter.

Given the general level of activity on the site, 100 CCP on a single sub just seems like a tall order right now. It really ought to be set somewhere within reach, or perhaps left up to the sub owner whether to implement such a policy on their sub.

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[–] indelible-sarcasm 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Whole numbers are easy. It would be nice to do some manipulations with the monthly points in a sub, but I suspect that would be computationally expensive.

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