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[–] NormDeplume 1 points 69 points (+70|-1) ago  (edited ago)

I agree wholeheartedly with the blocking of /v/askvoat.

However, I'm not sure why this is causing everyone to question voat as a whole though. Askvoat was unlisted as a default, and the admins wrote a post basically saying (reading between the lines): "Yeah, we don't like this either, but we're following the rules, because the rules need to apply to everyone"

Voat is an open community. They are doing EXACTLY what I'd hope an open forum did: Not showing favoritism or treating people differently. In this case I personally wish they would, I think She is a big problem. However, if I cheer when "the other side" is being treated unfairly, then what right do I have to complain when "my side" is treated differently? Once the rules stop being enforced equally, you never know which way the winds will shift in the future.

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[–] CptCmdrAwesome [S] 3 points 17 points (+20|-3) ago 

Yeah I see your point, I just don't want to be a part of something where all the top-flight subs are run by fascists who don't have any interest in serving the community. And this is a massive step in that direction.

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[–] NormDeplume 1 points 23 points (+24|-1) ago 

I agree wholeheartedly, but to me this is actually proof that this won't become Reddit 2.0 in my mind. The biggest problem over there (in my eyes) is the SRS cabal, and how they are allowed to act with impunity. Any questions about them are ignored, and the admins just pretend it's not a problem.

In this case though, the equivalent happened, and the admins stepped up and said "this is a problem. We don't like it, but we have to enforce the rules. We've taken away what power we can (removing it as a default), but we have to be fair and let the community do what it will."

I feel like the best real solution would be to start up an alternative verse, and run it like it's supposed to be run. Eventually it will become a default (because I really think a true "askvoat" type place should be a default).

In this case, someone gamed the system. It sucks for us in the short run, but it proves that the system is in place and is being honored. With the modlogs, it's easy to see which verses are being run correctly, and Voat admins have already said they will listen to the community (I liked the idea of 100 ccp needed, even though I don't have it, and agreed with his logic, but community said no, so he listened). We have a great system here, it's just going through some growing pains, and it's WAY too early to write it off as "lost."

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[–] X____sign_here____ 1 points 10 points (+11|-1) ago 

I'm the owner of /v/why.

I can assure you I don't care what people say - even if I don't agree with it. The only job I have as a moderator is to make sure the browsing experience isn't filled with spam and garbage. If someone posts something disagreeable, then the users can downvoat it. That's your job.

If /v/why takes off, the moderators I assign will need to follow those same guidelines.

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[–] browserwarrior 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

but that's the best part of an open community. If you don't want the top-flight subs to be run by fascists, then make a sub yourself, and put in the effort to make it a top-flight sub. There's nothing stopping you from having exactly the sub you want. :) If the admins applied the rules subjectively, then you'd be subject to their motivations in addition to your own and you'd have a much more difficult time. So, if you dont like She, then lets make a new sub and put in the time and effort to make sure it beats out askvoat.

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[–] Scandinavian 2 points 15 points (+17|-2) ago 

I've always thought it the most probable that they'd transfer AskVoat to she. That doesn't bother me a lot; this will be a pyrrhic victory "she" will never recover from.

What bothers me is the dismissive scolding of the community from Puttitout:

SheGate proved that this community is just as vicious, just as judgmental, and just as intolerant as those we seek asylum from. Our duty is to not be a mirror image of that which we hate, but to be better.

To which I replied:

We are not a small minority. We are not here to create division. We are not here to judge.

.

We were fighting an abusive mod. To help your site become the free exchange of ideas you wanted.

We were fighting to keep subverses in the hands of users. To help your business stand out as a free alternative.

We were fighting to make Voat the internet's last bastion of human thought, feeling and creativity. To help your project show that humankind is more than just wars of words over who gets to be more offended about things.

.

You chose to respond with ridicule and picking favorites, instead of living up to your promise to us: a free website, free of moderator abuse and free of censorship for dissent.

I would like my donation of 500 SEK back.

https://voat.co/v/subverserequest/comments/422455/1874174

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[–] NormDeplume 1 points 16 points (+17|-1) ago  (edited ago)

That's just it though, you're asking the admins to use their power because "your side is right."

The admins are saying "we won't use our power unless someone breaks the rules." YOU say she's abusive (and I agree, but that's beside the point). The problem is though, she's following the rules, so by the definition they've set up, she's not abusive, and so they are not acting beyond the stated steps they can take (delisting).

Once you start allowing abuses of power for your side, everyone loses. Because your side won't always be the "right" side. Then, when you're on the other side of an issue, suddenly it sucks because you're being treated unfairly, but now you have no recourse because you've encouraged the abuses of powers when you "thought it was appropriate."

Here's the thing though, someone ALWAYS thinks the abuse is appropriate "in this case."

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[–] CptCmdrAwesome [S] 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Yeah, I was afraid those of us trying to fight this with calm reason and evidence were going to get lumped in the same category as noisy death-threat peddling shitheads.

I just figured the admins were a little smarter than that. Played right into their hands.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] ElementalPee 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

It's not an easy situation, clearly. Yeah, the sub was unlisted but it still has the weight of being a default and all the subscribers that came from that. It was the weight of being the defacto counterpart of a popular Reddit default. There was an established community and it was just handed over to someone who has been here for two months, someone no one really likes, and someone who removes entire discussions with some flimsy appeal to rules. Discussions with a lot of people's comments. Clearly that shouldn't have happened and if some technicality of the rules allowed it then the rules are bad and dumb.

Default or no, this isn't some esoteric sub like /v/delawarebeekeeping or something. Eventually, @she will pay some lip service to Atko's direction and it will be relisted and it's just going to continue to be terribly ran and terribly moderated. @she isn't serving the community. She is dictatoring it.

Ideally it should be relisted and modded by someone the community votes in. In lieu of that, we need another sub to take its spot as a default. /v/askvoat2 seems like kind of a dumb name for a default though. /v/ask could be good if the mod team stepped it up or handed it over to someone who would.

As it is, the sub has way too much weight and import to be given over to someone who was barely ever here and who no one wants in charge of them.

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[–] NormDeplume 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly that it's a shit situation. It's a lose lose for them, and honestly for Voat as a whole.

However, to me, they chose to abide by the rules, even though it pisses people off, even though they probably know the damage someone like she can do in the long run.

They've shown they will listen to the userbase for the things that are under admin control (downvoting, for example). They've shown what they WANT the site to be (many posts about the verses being run for the community, not by the mods), but they've also said "these are the rules, and this is only what we will enforce."

To me, they are betting on the system they have created. And to me, that's a GREAT bet. If they make an exception now, because they don't like it, or because it's so new, or because everyone is so raw from Reddit, etc., then they are showing in the long run that the system is broken. By taking a stand and saying "we abide by the rules, even if it sucks" they give me hope for the future of this site.

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[–] AnTi90d 2 points 21 points (+23|-2) ago 

This will cause the Voat community to lose a portion of its faith in the administrators.

..a few will leave..

However, if the administrators add v/AskVoat back as a default sub after handing it to the SJWs, people will leave Voat in droves.

Most people came here from retarddit to get away from people exactly like she. The SJWs took over that place through methods just like this.. one by one, target a subverse, take control and move on to the next.

PuttItOut just let them have it. I am severely disappointed in that decision. I hope he stubs his toe, often and consecutively for at least fourteen days.

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[–] CptCmdrAwesome [S] 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

However, if the administrators add v/AskVoat back as a default sub after handing it to the SJWs, people will leave Voat in droves.

I doubt it. I had no idea any of this was even happening until I saw the drama unfolding, which prompted me to look more closely.

Most people don't pay enough attention to even notice.

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[–] Scandinavian 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Enough people are concerned with how this is playing it out. They can make a lot of noise if they choose to.

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[–] kevdude 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

No, but if they do that it indicates the direction the whole site is going and that will move people away.

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[–] Disgruntled 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

If they made it a default again I would leave and never come back.

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[–] satnavtomington 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I agree, I still don't really know what went on, and I don't really care either. I think if a bunch of people leave voat because of one person in one subverse, then good riddance I say.

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[–] planetron 2 points 19 points (+21|-2) ago  (edited ago)

What really disappoints me is that this whole thing was focused into her having a SJW leanings. Instead of focusing on how she failed as a moderator.

  • She haphazardly imposed a stupid rule.
  • She justifies the stupid rule.
  • The Admin of the site has to stepped in and called out that the moderators for sucking at their job.
  • The subverse was removed as default sub and yet she never made an effort to correct nor did something about it.

She failed as the moderator, that's clear. And that should be the talking points.

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[–] Moosh_Banger 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago  (edited ago)

What really disappoints me is that this whole thing was focused into her having a SJW leanings. Instead of focusing on how she failed as a moderator.

In fairness I think the two are connected. SJW's love nothing more than imposing arbitrary rules.

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[–] ThisWeirdIndividual 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Exactly where I stand in all this mess.

[–] [deleted] 8 points 19 points (+27|-8) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Chance 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

It's one sub, and Atko has actually at least shown some concern/action towards it. This will get resolved, likely by either /v/askgoat or /v/askvoat2 just overtaking the old askvoat.

Hang tru nigga. Everything will work out.

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[–] Scandinavian 1 points 24 points (+25|-1) ago 

The real problem is @Puttitout and his choosing a side. A side that reported his very own company to the FBI at her first chance.

Think about that for a while. They chose a user with a handful of supporters, who willingly tried to bring the site down and get its founders in trouble, over the community.

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[–] CptCmdrAwesome [S] 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

Can't blame you :(

[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

[–] [deleted] 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Tipman79 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago  (edited ago)

she will probably be requesting it by the end of the day. /s

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[–] dake 1 points 16 points (+17|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Yeah, me too. Blocked it after trying to ask a question with "Please bear with me, there is a question" in the title (among other words) and getting removed by she for "there must be a question mark".

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[–] 1873792? 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

That is a sign of someone who wants to exersize power.

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[–] Pappy 2 points 12 points (+14|-2) ago 

Dollar says that's the only thing she exercises.

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[–] Scandinavian 5 points 10 points (+15|-5) ago  (edited ago)

I think each and everyone of us has to take a moment to contemplate what to do next. Clearly, this is already Reddit 2.0. I wish I could withdraw my donation to Voat.

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[–] 1rash 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Not that I want to encourage you, but @Atko has already said that anyone who has a proof of their donation can ask for refund.

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[–] SpaceRosa 12 points -3 points (+9|-12) ago 

It's Reddit 2.0 because the admins refused to bend the rules because of their own opinions?

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[–] kevdude 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

No, I think we are focused on the language. They could have said "She requested it and it was by the books, so it is what it is." But they felt the need to editorialize and take a side and basically dismiss the opinion of a couple thousand people. Not saying they should have caved to the mob, they did the right thing according to the rules and I respect that. But voicing support of one and disapproval of the many is reddit-like behavior.

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[–] benender 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

If this bitch here is happy with the decision and backing the admins you KNOW shit if fucked up, get out here with ur alt "she"

[–] [deleted] 2 points 8 points (+10|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] CptCmdrAwesome [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I hope you're right, I'm just gobsmacked that the admins thought this was the solution, and particularly I take issue with the post where it was announced which showed zero diplomacy and a very limited view of the situation at hand.

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[–] Isaak 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

People are throwing a temper tantrum in hopes that atko will cave and bend the rules for them.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] smokratez 2 points 7 points (+9|-2) ago 

Blocked. You should push alternatives more.

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