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[–] GimmeTheUsual 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Holy cow, civil discourse on a complex topic. Refreshing, honestly.

I do have a question if you feel like answering/elaborating.

I've been thinking about the conditions in which the Nazis kept their prisoners. There's documented accounts of experimentation and other atrocities. As for the mass-killings via gas chambers, I'm having a hard time reconciling how that would go down. There have been accounts about "showers" in which they were tricked into stepping into, then gassed.

I don't see how that would work if you have a holding area (you can't gas them all, so there is a some kind of interstitial containment) and suddenly your best friend who was going to the "shower" didn't come back after an hour or so. Were they that demoralized that they didn't have any desire to fight? To storm the gates and get shot instead of poisoned to death, even if the chances of surviving were remote?

Putting myself in that situation, if my friend didn't come back -- I would know something is up. The last thing I'd want to do is wait for my turn.

I'm getting the feeling that there were such things that took place, and are all horrible, but the narrative of millions upon millions being killed that way just doesn't compute to me -- unless they had given up completely and were shambling zombies. I know there were gulags where they basically starved to death, so perhaps that was a factor.

Any opinion on that? Is the gassing and whatnot decisively documented on the scale that is part of the mainstream narrative? Or was it limited instances used as leverage for some kind of victimhood play.

Yeah, I'm serious.

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[–] Joe_McCarthy [S] ago  (edited ago)

I have read quite a bit of literature on the Holocaust from both the revisionist and exterminationist perspectives. I've also read some debates between figures from both sides most notably Zundel vs. Nizkor. Do I believe radical anti-Semites were capable of slaughtering Jews on an industrial scale? Yes. Do I think they did it in the way usually described? Possibly not.

I do think the exterminationists tend to get the better of the debates though and their side has the real scholars. I don't think there is a single revisionist with a history doctorate for example. But of course to some extent the development of a more solid revisionist cohort has been impeded by criminalizing and impugning it. If Germans were permitted to investigate their own history I suspect they'd deal the approved narrative more compelling blows.

This post is already getting too long but the takeaway is that I'm basically indifferent on the topic and even question how important it is. If that helps.

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[–] GimmeTheUsual 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Appreciate the cogent and thoughtful reply.

Thanks, more to ponder.