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[–] TeranNotTerran 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

This is fantastic. Thank you for your writeup and the idea as a whole. You sound very serious and that's not something very common here.

What would you estimate costs to be for land as well as a basic home on the land? I am not sure what New Zealand land goes for.

This sounds a lot like Fort Galt, have you heard of it?

Why do you think that New Zealand is a better bet than the US?

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[–] Goater [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

You can ballpark the cost of construction for standard styles at around 900 USD per m2.

So, an average 3 bedroom house would be around $150k to build, if it was only you builiding at the time, factoring in the rural costs. If it was multiple sites going up at once, I'd estimate around $90k per 3 bedder of economic finishes.

However, in respect to my private message, extra capital would be great, but I really need extra hands and to diversify the properties activities, so the land would be very cheap, as it would be 0 profit for me contractually, any extra capital that was spent on nicer housing sites would simply go back in to improving the property. Win/win in my mind.

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[–] Goater [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

My pleasure, at the very least if it isn't your guys thing, at least I have almost a template for later usage. I am very serious about it, I am sick of living in a society without community values and can see that the world is in for dark days in our lifetimes.

It will be done, but after years of research I know that it can't be a one man show if it is to succeed. It needs at minimum a variety of real life applicable skills, like the ones on the list I linked to. Most tasks require at least four men or heavy equipment, so I've decided that my own sanctuary is lovely, but not one that could survive a global catostrophe of any kind, due to its current lack of repair and maintenance facilities and no new production of goods or services.

I hadn't heard of Fort Galt, great concept and similar to what I'd like to achieve, however I'd never invest there or move there, due to the national borders issue and also the extreme poverty, combined with a bad culture (I've been to Chile, least favourite country in South America, culturally at least, its mountain areas are beautiful.

In the event of national shortages of things, there will be a lot of poor people who A) Know about the fort, and B) Have the numbers, to go in there and steal everything. Which will happen at some point, as no matter what personal defence they may have, they are literally surrounded by millions who would try to get their resouces, eventually they are going to run out of ammo.

Land costs would be up to the owner really, it really depends on what other decisions are made, such as how rural is the property and how much personal land the owner wants. Also, what we think the best financing model for new owners is.

Basically, very rough calculations, at the moment with 5 investors, if it were divided equally, one example would be 350k USD each for a property of 80 acres, with river, existing barns and ag infrastructure, fencing, existing power grid connection, etc. This would assume that every owner wanted large plots of land, which I doubt would be the case.

My personal preference would be that the property, or any subsections, are not financed in any fashion by a bank, and a property like that is available with current capital. What I am looking for is people of similar mindsets, you can ballpark my capital available for the project at, (sent privately).

The same property could have housing sites that were nothing to pay for the housing site, in less desirable locations on the property, but strata generating mainly i.e. for people without much existing capital they basically get given the site and pay a higher strata for continual improvements to the property. These people could go on to purchase another house site, but as with any property would need to sell or keep their current.

This allows them a lot of free capital to improve their plot, whilst simultaneously ensuring other owners don't feel hard done by. This option would suit people who want access to the property, but aren't looking for a large amount of land if there is communal facilities, such as those of the digital nomad concept.

It would be up to the owner what build quality they want, as long as it doesn't look like absolute shit. The actual housing can be done very cheaply, especially if you have on site tools to make the builders job simple.

In order for the property not to fall into disrepair, as I have seen with others, you can't allow people to sell to whoever, as who they sell to may not have the same goals as the original owners, the sale has to first be offered to other owners and then to other people, but every property should be allowed to vote on new purchasers to the community.

Why do you think that New Zealand is a better bet than the US?

I don't know if I could say it's better, but I can say that it is certainly safer, and a safer investment. Even if 5 years after everyone setup the world saw world peace, the property will have appreciated in value and people could easily sell, it's almost a constant with rural NZ land that it appreciates, due to the ever expanding cities.

So, my points would be:

  1. Half the population density of USA.

  2. Far more arable land, for everyone, which means less chance Paco wants to take your shit such as Chile. Also, most of us already know how to hunt and fish, so wouldn't resort to violence, when it's far easier just to go catch something to eat.

  3. Food everywhere. In a one day trip we could collect more seafood than we could eat in 6 months.

  4. Not a first strike nation under any nuclear plans I'm aware of, USA is a first strike nation for many countries shit hits the fan plans.

  5. Incredibly remote. Our borders are thousands of kilometers of rough seas.

  6. All year growing season with mineral rich volcanic soils.

  7. Great culture rurally. The best people I know, removing all bias, they are honestly the friendliest people you can imagine, in the main.

Let me know your thoughts.

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[–] TeranNotTerran 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Hey Goater. I'm sorry for the wait. I've been really busy and hopefully will get back to you on this soon.

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[–] TeranNotTerran 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

@coopzy what do you think about this?

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[–] Tor1 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Wow.

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[–] Goater [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Hey Tor1,

I'm not sure if you like or disliked this idea, but just thought I'd say hello as I've seen you make some decent suggestions around GoatsGulch.

Are you an interested Gulcher or just being helpful and contributing advice?

Not for this project, I've put this on the backburner currently, I'm focusing on trying to help out TeranNotTerran's idea as he already has a vacant lot he wants to develop and Voat doesn't have enough people to really get a NZ gulch off the ground yet. Just wondering if you want to be pinged for any major updates in that area from me.

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[–] Tor1 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Sure that would be great.

I'm very interested, but live a 9 hour drive to the east of the project, and it wouldn't be that easy to move there or even to visit. I'm fairly tied down at the moment.

I'm active in the NH Free State Project Thing thing, but it hasn't done as much as I'd hoped. I'm hoping the West Texas thing and others will accomplish more and some truly free communities might take root and flourish.

US Libertarians spend more time than most learning and talking about economics and philosophy. But I think a lot of it is not in their best interests.

As a whole, I think world liberty is greatly increasing. But in the US it seems to be declining for some reason.

As an amateur writer, I think Atlas Shrugged was a great beginning. But there's a lot further to go until the creed “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” becomes a reality.

Or an individually modified sets of creeds take root. In no way do I look at Ayn Rand as some kind of authority, but rather as a rare polymath and multilingual that wrote some really intriguing speculative fiction.