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[+]corsairio1 point3 points4 points
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[–]corsairio1 point
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Hear me out here...
It's not like I want random people to make accusations that aren't backed up by anything. But we should tread cautiously about whether these accusations should be indictable. I think it infringes upon freedom of speech. The fact that there are defamation laws is problematic enough, but making it so that people are afraid of using the court system in case they fail is going to allow powerful people even more leeway to get away with crimes.
EDIT:
Since I am the top post...
There are people that want false accusations of rape to be a punishable offense. They are using this case as a flagship.
But not only do they want to make a legal accusation illegal, they also want to make contacting journalists illegal. This is unnacceptable. Think of all those people that get raped by high level officials, as in the pedophile rings that every now and then get uncovered in the UK or DC.
These people run the courts. What recourse could you have as a woman or girl when you've been raped by the people that are supposed to bring justice? Why should we play into their hands and allow them to not only not grant them justice, but punish them if they ever seek it? If you cannot go to the courts, and you cannot go to the journalists, what is a girl supposed to do? We should not close the doors with which we can fight back against the establishment... we should be opening them. Stand with freedom of speech.
This is more about the magazine publishing things as fact when they were incorrect or made up. It hurts everyone involved, including the college, the frat, AND the victim. I'm not a lawyer, but this seems to be a perfect example of libel. Rolling Stone is in a position of influence and credibility (a point I'm sure people will dispute) and with that position, there is a responsibility to do the right thing. In this case, the responsible thing would have been doing the research, conducting interviews, basic fact checking, etc. before publishing what they had. What they did was damaging to everyone involved and they need to be held accountable.
[+]corsairio0 points0 points0 points
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[–]corsairio0 points
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I'm saying that the entire notion of libel as an action with legal recourse goes against the first amendment, and is used by the establishment to keep down dissenters. I don't think Rolling Stone sells itself as an organization with true journalistic integrity, either.
[–]corsairio0 points
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I think it would, yes. But in addition to that large violation of a person's rights, it would also empower the establishment even further if we were to expand this beyond rape allegations.
You are making nonsensical claims. News organizations should not be allowed to blatantly lie about other people, specially if those lies damage the person's reputation. If that were the case, nothing would prevent all newspapers from publishing stories accusing YOU of, say, child rape. You would be completely powerless to do anything about that, and would probably be lynched for it. There is a real issue of what constitutes slander, and it is often abused, no discussion there. But getting completely rid of it would be madness.
Nope. If you damage someone's reputation, and they can prove you were lying, then I see no problem with you being required to pay them back every cent they lost because of your lies.
False accusations of rape are already a punishable offence. What needs to happen is for those laws to be actually enforced and sentencing to be balanced to the point where those found guilty receive the same sentences they attempted to impose on someone else.
If it's possible for these conditions to affect innocent people, then that means that the rules of evidence we have for criminal cases are far far too lax and need to be tightened up. And I have no doubt they will be because people don't care until it happens to a woman.
view the rest of the comments →
[–] corsairio 1 point 3 points 4 points (+4|-1) ago (edited ago)
Hear me out here...
It's not like I want random people to make accusations that aren't backed up by anything. But we should tread cautiously about whether these accusations should be indictable. I think it infringes upon freedom of speech. The fact that there are defamation laws is problematic enough, but making it so that people are afraid of using the court system in case they fail is going to allow powerful people even more leeway to get away with crimes.
EDIT:
Since I am the top post...
There are people that want false accusations of rape to be a punishable offense. They are using this case as a flagship.
But not only do they want to make a legal accusation illegal, they also want to make contacting journalists illegal. This is unnacceptable. Think of all those people that get raped by high level officials, as in the pedophile rings that every now and then get uncovered in the UK or DC.
For instance:
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/01/royal-sex-scandal-prince-andrew-pedophile-flight-logs/
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/kincora-child-sex-abuse-victim-richard-kerr-i-was-molested-by-powerful-people-at-dolphin-square-and-elm-guest-house-in-london-31121971.html
These people run the courts. What recourse could you have as a woman or girl when you've been raped by the people that are supposed to bring justice? Why should we play into their hands and allow them to not only not grant them justice, but punish them if they ever seek it? If you cannot go to the courts, and you cannot go to the journalists, what is a girl supposed to do? We should not close the doors with which we can fight back against the establishment... we should be opening them. Stand with freedom of speech.
[–] hungryasabear 0 points 10 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago
This is more about the magazine publishing things as fact when they were incorrect or made up. It hurts everyone involved, including the college, the frat, AND the victim. I'm not a lawyer, but this seems to be a perfect example of libel. Rolling Stone is in a position of influence and credibility (a point I'm sure people will dispute) and with that position, there is a responsibility to do the right thing. In this case, the responsible thing would have been doing the research, conducting interviews, basic fact checking, etc. before publishing what they had. What they did was damaging to everyone involved and they need to be held accountable.
[–] ArchVile 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
It would be funny if Rolling Stone defended itself successfully by testifying under oath that no one should take the shit they publish seriously
[–] corsairio ago (edited ago)
I'm saying that the entire notion of libel as an action with legal recourse goes against the first amendment, and is used by the establishment to keep down dissenters. I don't think Rolling Stone sells itself as an organization with true journalistic integrity, either.
[–] tosss 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago
Maybe I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying that having recourse for false allegations like this would infringe on people's 1A right?
[–] corsairio ago
I think it would, yes. But in addition to that large violation of a person's rights, it would also empower the establishment even further if we were to expand this beyond rape allegations.
[–] mguzmann 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
You are making nonsensical claims. News organizations should not be allowed to blatantly lie about other people, specially if those lies damage the person's reputation. If that were the case, nothing would prevent all newspapers from publishing stories accusing YOU of, say, child rape. You would be completely powerless to do anything about that, and would probably be lynched for it. There is a real issue of what constitutes slander, and it is often abused, no discussion there. But getting completely rid of it would be madness.
[–] Broc_Lia ago
Nope. If you damage someone's reputation, and they can prove you were lying, then I see no problem with you being required to pay them back every cent they lost because of your lies.
False accusations of rape are already a punishable offence. What needs to happen is for those laws to be actually enforced and sentencing to be balanced to the point where those found guilty receive the same sentences they attempted to impose on someone else.
If it's possible for these conditions to affect innocent people, then that means that the rules of evidence we have for criminal cases are far far too lax and need to be tightened up. And I have no doubt they will be because people don't care until it happens to a woman.