[–] tyrdchaos 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Let's see if I can handle these questions.

That is great, but what I would like to know is does it affect vapor production?

It depends. At lower temperatures (<500 °F, for example), vapor production is noticeably lower than your standard Kanthal A1 build. Most temperatures above that seem to produce similar vapor production to a 0.3 Ω at about 65 W - 70 W. YMMV.

Can you still modify wattage?

You can, but it doesn't work in the same way as non-TC builds (Kanthal/Stainless Steel). In a TC build, wattage is a lot like acceleration in a car. It isn't how fast you are going, it's how fast you are getting to your top speed. Wattage in a TC build tells you how fast you will get to your max temperature (whatever you set it at).

Does it limit you in any way?

This is somewhat ambiguous, but I will see if I know what you mean. The limiting factor in a TC build is the max temperature you set on the device. Most devices that are based on DNA40 chip go up to 600 °F. There are clones of the DNA40 chip (or just other boards that have been developed to support) that also do temperature control, but most do not go above 600 °F, with two exceptions. The Smoke Xpro M80 can go up to 900 °F and the Snow Wold can do 662 °F.

Why nickel or titanium?

Most people use nickel. It is more readily available. Titanium is slightly more expensive. Some people have allergies to nickel, so they use titanium. There are claims that titanium is a better, cleaner vape. I have not personally used titanium, so my knowledge stops there.

What about resistance?

Nickel and titanium wire are not resistance wire. The resistance is due to a concept called inductive reactance (click on the link to learn more). Most TC builds I have seen range from 0.1 Ω - 0.16 Ω.

I hope this answer your questions.


[–] Nebakanezzer [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

That was excellent, thank you so much.

In all honesty I just didn't understand why someone would go through the trouble of getting new devices, new wire, and dealing with the extra headache, if all it is doing is being slightly safer at higher temps and lose vapor production while they're at it.

I'm not sure what temperature I vape at, as it is not TC, but I imagine .2 ohm at 75watts isnt hitting 600F. I really would prefer a cooler vape if anything.


[–] tyrdchaos 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I just did some quick testing using a Saucecode tank with a 0.2 Ω Herakles coil and a Troll RDA with a 0.3 Ω coil on a Sigelei 100W plus @ 60W using a Radioshack pen IR thermometer.

I pointed the IR thermometer down the chimney of the Saucecode tank and directly at the coils of the Troll with the cap off. Here are my results (10 tests, 8 second duration).

For the Saucecode, the average temperature reading was about 180 °F.

For the Troll, the average temperature reading was about 200 °F.

This makes sense, because there is less voltage going through the coil of the 0.2 Ω coil vs the 0.3 Ω coil @ 60W. It is 4.0 vs 4.2, respectively, according to the Sigelei. Mathematically, in order to produce 60 W through the 0.2 Ω coil, it takes about 3.5 volts. The 0.2 Ω readout is correct mathematically. So, more voltage/wattage through a coil will produce a hotter vape (which is something anyone can subjectively test).

Without doing more testing, it would be hard to say. I can tell you that I shot the IR thermometer down the Saucecode @ 75W a few times about got an average of about 185 °F. I didn't do any real testing at that wattage. The reason being is at 75W, I could smell the cotton starting to burn.

It is also good to bear in mind that the vape will be cooler when you are actually drawing on the device, because the air would cool the coils down which would cool the vape some.

TC has its advantages. I think it is in response to individual concerns about the chemicals we inhale while vaping. At higher temperatures (at the coil), there is concern that some harmful chemicals are coming off the kanthal (I have not tested this, but others have reported this is the case). The vape is definitely cooler, depending on what max temperature you set. Keep in mind, you are really only controlling the temperature of the coil when you vape using a TC device and nickel/titanium wire. Even still, this temperature is not a real temperature, but a temperature that is derived from resistance changes of the material. As the material is heated, the resistance increases at a fixed rate. When resistance increases, the device reduces the voltage passed through the coil. If you ever use a TC device, you will notice that as the temperature readout increases, the wattage will decrease to compensate. In essence, a TC device controls the voltage that is passed through the coil, which helps it maintain the temperature you have set.


Now, here is some information on the science.

First, we need to understand some physics. For most materials, the resistance will change as the temperature changes. Also, in most of these cases, the resistance increases. There is a physics formula to express this:



Resistance = [Initial Resistance][ 1 + [Temperature Coefficient of the material]([Final Temperature in Celsius]-[Initial Temperature in Celsius])

With this information, we can prove that resistance changes (at least mathematically).

If the initial resistance of our coil is 0.16 Ω, the coil is at room temperature (21 °C), our final temperature is 316 °C (about 600 °F), and we know the temperature coefficient of Nickel (0.00641), then we can figure out the final resistance. Let's plug these values into the formula:

R = (0.16 Ω)[1 + (0.00641)(316 °C - 21 °C)

R = 0.462552 Ω

Now, let's say we have this on a TC device. The initial wattage is set to 40W (max wattage for a DNA40 based device). We have our temperature set to 316 °C (600 °F) and a 0.16 Ω nickel coil.

Using ohm's law:

P(wattage) = V2/R

The initial voltage delivered to the coil will be about 2.53V.

At that wattage, we will hit the max temperature rather fast. However, the device wants to keep the voltage the same so it can maintain the temperature. We know that at 316 °C, the resistance of our coil has gone up to about 0.46 Ω. Using ohm's law again, we can see that our new wattage is around 13W - 14W. Having used a Heatvape Invader Mini (an Xpro M80 and a Snow Wolf) before, I can attest that this is fairly accurate when using a nickel coil at that resistance and temperature setting.

I hope this all makes sense.