ELI5: Explain Like I'm 5
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[–] Sitnikoff ago
Wrong. Where in scripture do you think you're getting that assertion?
Jews are from the tribe of Judah, and Judah was Jacob/Israel's son.
And from the tribe of Esau, the Edomites originate (known by the Greeks as "Idumaeans"). Among the most notable Edomite of the classical Idumaean period is Antipater I the Idumaean, who was the progenitor and the founder of the Herodian dynasty, being the father of Herod the Great, and in effect the grandfather of Herod Antipater, whom Antipater was the Herod we know as "King Herod," the very one who ordered the killing of all the first born upon the time of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
There is no son of Jacob with the name of "Hebrew." In fact, "Hebrew" traditionally is derived from the name "Eber," who was Noah's great-great grandson, and Jacob's great(7x) grandfather.
The jews today are descendants (at least ideologically) of the Pharisees, which originate mainly from the Hasmonean dynasty, which was a period of brief independence from the Persians after a century or two of being pillaged abducted and raped by Babylonians; considering it would be reasonable to suspect that there was a significant level of race mixing and cultural assimilation between the Judeans and the Babylonians and the Persians, many of the Pharisees were the children of mixed heritage while simultaneously attempting to legalistically cling to what Jewish roots they had left. Then you have after they killed Christ 2000 years of mixing with the rest of the world.
[–] Native ago
Alright mate, we are getting into some deep history. Which is fun and I know that you love fun.
To be clear and i'm glad that you made the distinction between Jews and Hebrews aka Israelites and you aren't wrong on the Pharisee link. So we aren't really disagreeing. What I want to make clear is that Jesus Christ was neither a Jew Nor a Pharisee (we know this because Jesus hated both Pharisees and Saducees aka Jews).
So let's go deep into history.
We have two Ancient Tribes the Edomites (children of Esau) and Israelites (childen of Jacob) arguably they are related however one tribe was cursed
Eventually the Israelites aka Hebrews with the help of King David and Solomon ruled Israel and the territories in the Near East till Babylon took them over and enslaved the entire Israelite tribes and put them in captivity. During this period of captivity the Edomites who later came to be known as "Jews" took over the lands. So when the Israelites returned from captivity there was a lot of hostility between the tribes and into the days of Jesus Christ.
Here is more reference on Edom
Jesus was not a Jew he was an Israelite and Hebrew who didn't practice the Jewish religion nor came from their tribes
Jesus was an Israelite. He was a direct descendant of Levi through Aaron.1 Levi was a son of Jacob. Jacob was named Israel by God.2 Jesus was also a direct descendant of Judah through David. Judah was also a son of Jacob.3 Jacob’s sons were the first Israelites. Jesus was specifically an Israelite because he was a direct descendant of two of the sons of Jacob/Israel.4
Why then, does everyone say that Jesus was a Jew? Most people think that Jesus was a Jew, but Jesus was an Israelite, not a Jew. Israelites were the ones who were called the chosen people of God.5 Edomites, and their descendants, now called Jews, are not the chosen people. The fact that modern day Jews want us to think they are descended from Israelites is one of the greatest intentional lies, or misunderstandings, in all of history.
It would be virtually impossible to find a book written about Jesus that doesn’t describe him as a Jew. Are they all calling him a Jew because they think he was a Jew by religion? Are they all calling him a Jew because they think he was a Jew by ancestry? A person can be a Jew by religion while not being a Jew by ancestry, and a person can be a Jew by ancestry while not being a Jew by religion. Just what are the facts concerning the religion and ancestry of Jesus?
First, was Jesus a Jew as far as his religion was concerned? No, his religion was Hebrewism; or, as we now call it, the Religion of the Old Testament. That religion was the religion of the Hebrews and the Israelites, and was based on the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. Stephen S. Wise, a former chief rabbi of the United States, said:
“The return from Babylon [following the Captivity, about 538 B.C.], and the adoption of the Babylonian Talmud, marks the end of Hebrewism, and the beginning of Judaism.”6
Jesus criticized the Jews, or Pharisees, for establishing Judaism which is based on the Talmud,7 and which at the time of Jesus was still called the Tradition of the Elders.8
When the people returned from Babylon, about 538 B.C., after the Babylonian Captivity, they brought back a different religion than the one practiced just fifty years earlier. The new religion was the Tradition of the Elders (or Judaism), and that religion was based on the teachings of the rabbis rather than the laws of God.
For many years after the return from the Babylonian Captivity, even at the time of Jesus, the remaining Israelites still went to the Temple and participated in the religious activities there. Those Israelites had nowhere else to go, but they tried to hold on to Hebrewism, the religion of their ancestors, even though that religion had been largely eliminated by the rabbis.
Professor Georg Hermann Schnedermann (1852-1917) of the University of Leipzig, a Lutheran theologian, made his point eloquently when he wrote about the two groups at the time of Jesus with different religions and ethnicities.
He distinguished “between the ‘Israelite’ and ‘Jewish’ elements in the intellectual atmosphere in which Jesus grew up: though Judaism reigned in the schools of the scribes and held the field to outward appearance, yet an ‘Israelite’ strain of piety and conviction prevailed in a certain section of religious society. Those who walked in the green pastures and beside the still waters of this faith of the heart were in touch with the Prophets and understood all that is deepest in the Old Testament.”11
Many of the people hoped that a leader would emerge who would turn back the clock and allow them to have the religion of God that had disappeared.12 A mission of Jesus was to give back to the Israelites the religion that had been stolen from them. Definitely, Jesus was not a Jew by religion.
Second, was Jesus a Jew by ancestry? Jews were not Israelites as they were not descended from Jacob. They were descended from Esau, the brother of Jacob. While both were grandsons of Abraham and sons of Isaac, Jacob was favored by God.13 Esau’s descendants were called Edomites,14 and later they were called Jews since many of them were then living in Judea because the Edomites had been captured by John Hyrcanus and forced to convert to the religion then in place in Judea. Jesus stated in Matthew, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”15 When Jesus sent his disciples out to spread his message he told them, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”16 The Jews were not a part of the sheep of the house of Israel that Jesus talked about. Note that it is not the fact that the Jews did not believe in the message of Jesus that made them not of his sheep. Jesus knew that it was because they were not of his sheep that they did not believe in his message.
“But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”17
Therefore, Jesus in his own words gave us proof that the Jews were not of his sheep, the house of Israel. They were not Israelites. Jesus knew that they didn’t have the same religion or ancestry that he had.
Jacob kept his line pure and God rewarded him by making him the father of God’s “chosen people.”18 Note that the Jews are not the “chosen people” even though they say that they are. Jacob’s brother Esau married out of his own people and God punished him. His descendants moved to the Mount Seir area southeast of the Dead Sea. His descendants were called Edomites.19 They were the ancestors of the people known today as Jews.20 Later the Edomites moved into the areas vacated by the Israelites during the Captivity. Many years after that when John Hyrcanus, one of the Macabean kings, conquered the Edomites and then offered them full citizenship if they would adopt the religion then in place in Judea, this brought most of the Edomites into Judea and into the religion later known as Judaism.
“As far as authentic history will carry us, the descendants of the Edomites are to be sought for rather amongst the Jews themselves, than amongst any other people ….”21
The Edomite Jews claimed they were from Abraham, which they were, being descended from Esau, a son of Isaac. But a passage in John proves that the Jews were not Israelites since they told Jesus that they had never been in bondage.22 Of course, the Israelites had been held as slaves in Egypt.23 Those were Edomite Jews to whom Jesus was speaking.