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[–] sniper98g 0 points 24 points (+24|-0) ago  (edited ago)

The TPP is a massive "trade agreement" whose primary purpose seems to be regulating the internet. Unfortunately, we can't even begin to explain all the ways that it will affect you, because the actual text of the treaty has area 51 levels of security on it. Even member of Congress can only read it in a special room, alone, where they aren't allowed to take notes.

If it keeps with the trend of past free trade agreements, it's main function will be to change the laws in signatory countries in way that would not be able to be passed on their own do to it being political suicide. For example, when the US congress tried to pass SOPA, they met with huge resistance from the public and tech companies, and backed down. If they vote for the TPP, they're just ratify a trade treaty, if it just happens that the trade treaty in question contains provisions almost identical to that of SOPA (something that has been rumored to be true), that's not their fault.

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[–] LuvaDaBoobz 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago  (edited ago)

How is a law allowed to be secret?

Edit: I'm serious, how is it justified?

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[–] DanTdaxp 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

Sorry your question is being ignored. I will try to answer.

These justifications of the TPP are "true" whether or not you think it is a good idea. There are costs to any actions, and maybe the costs of the TPP outweigh the benefits. So here are two benefits

First, there is a "production" justification. We can produce more when we break complex tasks into simpler tasks, and focus on making each of those simple tasks better. Because even simple tasks are actually pretty complicated when it comes to supply chains, you'll see different countries and different regions specializing in producing even simple things. National Public Radio had a n excellent series on how t-shirts are made. A lot goes into it, in a lot of countries.

So TPP reduces barriers to specialization in things like this. Maybe those barriers have other benefits. I dunno. But that's the production justification of the TPP. http://apps.npr.org/tshirt/#/title

Second, there's a security justification. CNN likes to focus on bombs or sanctions or summits, but real power is the ability to talk to someone. This is because almost every problem anyone actually faces is complicated, and there's a lot of "reasonable" takes on it. Take these little islands in the South China Sea. China can give you a really good reason why they are really China. Philippines can too. Vietnam can too. Everyone takes the issue seriously, and can tell you vital details that everyone else ignores or forgets about.

But everyone is super busy. Why should they make time on their schedule for your pet issue, your island or whatever, when there's lots of other issues with lots of other reasonable sides?

Well, you can also bring it up when you are talking about something else. The more you have to talk to, the more opportunities you have to bring anything up. And the TPP just coincidentally* [really, its a coincidence, really!] happens to involve a ton of countries that do a lot of business with China... but not China. So coincidentally* [really, its a coincidence, really!] we have a lot of opportunities to talk with a lot of countries that often do business with China... how convenient.

In the US the Congress is typically concerned with domestic policy, and currently the Republican Party (which is the more pro-business of the parties) is in charge of Congress. So Congress focuses more on the production justification, even if there are other sides that it is ignoring.

Likewise, the US President is more concerned with foreign policy, with the power that comes from talking to people, and so the President (who everyday faces an issue that would be easier if this-or-that person had a chance to talk to some other President or Prime Minister) is more concerned with the security justification.

Again, the TPP may or may not be a good idea. I've just shared two one-sided arguments. But they are fair arguments that are driving the pro side.

Hope this helps.

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[–] jpw42 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Even member of Congress can only read it in a special room, alone, where they aren't allowed to take notes.

I would not be surprised if this is true but do you have a link to the source of this statement?

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[–] OGE_Hover 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Tons of sources confirming this is true. Let me google that for you...

NPR
CNET
FIUSM

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[–] DanTdaxp 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Here is a link to a good Planet Money piece on the secret negotiations behind NAFTA.

tl;dr no one ever wants to negotiate in public on anything

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/06/26/417851577/episode-635-trade-deal-confidential

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[–] ooberhasli 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

The more I read about this stuff the more I want to hike into the wilderness somewhere far away and live off of my backyard garden and milk from my dairy goats. Or live in a cabin in the middle of Alaskan wilderness in solitude.

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[–] Moomanji 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

You and me both. Fuck this shit.

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[–] oedipusaurus_rex 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

they'll just come and tell you that collecting rainwater is illegal, and tear your house down.

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[–] Zuqoo 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

That's funny, that's what I plan to do in the next years.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

From what I've seen, the politicians are in at least some cases being strong-armed and/or blackmailed into voting for this by other politicians. I would not be a bit surprised if this was the case elsewhere, too. I'm not sure that almost anyone is for this bill.

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[–] liver_stream 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Hot water? really? http://www.dux.com.au/hot-water

But how you going to stop the mining companies fracking under your property, or when your house sinks into a sink hole because they mined underneath

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[–] MaMaPyCb 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

How is a biofuel water-heater a challenge? just mount high but have an access area to feed the fire. https://youtu.be/8HyiQAvx-TE

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[–] u6z2 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

These comics do a good job at explaining what is it and what it has the potential to do.

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[–] sniper98g 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I do like these comics, but they only address the actual free trade part of the TPP. The TPP is so much more than the free trade agreement it is being advertised as.

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[–] MarkTheFather [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

This comic helped out a lot! It's a great way to ELI5 lol

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[–] jpw42 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Not good representation, as i doubt the tpp actually has any thing has any thing to do with "Free Trade".

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[–] burnSMACKER 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

There are a lot more of those than I expected

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[–] liver_stream 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

TPP's original purpose is so that poor(or any country) countries can't break the rules of copyright. One major action is to stop poor African nation from duplicating drugs/medicine. The pharmaceutical companies are pissed that some countries instead of paying for aids medication, instead duplicated the medication and gave it to their people for cost price. Their only defense would to physically go to war but politicians won't. So when that country is breaking your copyright you can't do anything about it. The TPP agreement is designed that companies can take governments to court on an international level, and if they win, the country has to pay them their dictated fines. THe power comes in, that the major nation are forced to upload this global law but what ever means necessary (other then war) with trade embargo's. So when a poor nation can't afford to 5billion US a month on aid medicine, the company can then sue them, and the rest of the world makes them pay it most likely via the IMF. The country then becomes indebted and all it's resources and what ever objects they can make must go towards making some company richer. Generally the solution upto now was to sell their mineral resources, but once that runs out, they go bankrupt. It's about corporate greed, the large companies decided that spending 100 million on R&D entitles them to make 500x that in profit, and if you can't afford to pay then too bad your people should just die. The TPP is absolutely about exploiting other countries and stopping the governments from stopping them from stealing the countries resources. With the TPP in place, you can see bye bye to the amazon, mining companies will be able to frack under your house and no one can stop them not even the local law. For the US it means companies will be allowed to pollute at the same levels as they have in other places in the world, which might be okay but except China is in on that, so your pollution levels will be at the same levels in as they are in China. The worst part, is that all of this is being written by lawyers and each country are putting in loop holes to do what they want that benefits them. They are basically trying to make the world have the same set of laws the world over. So pollution levels of China, Mining companies having the same rights as in Australia, price gouging, stopping of public domain if they can find a way. Companies are controlled by shareholders, but I can tell you right now, that Chinese companies, Australian companies could not give a fuck about US citizens and vice versa. Their bottom line is money, the aid medicine makers told africa they had to pay full rates for aids medicine otherwise their people should die if they can't afford it. At the end of the day the rich get beyond richer and also allowed to pollute with impunity

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[–] c0bjasnak3 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

So what would encourage countries like that to sign TPP, if there seems like there's very little (if none) benefit for them? They would essentially and knowingly be signing away their assets to foreign corps.

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[–] DiamondIsUnbreakable 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

They don't have to sign the agreement. The economic and political pressure from the participating countries would be enough to force them respect copyrights.

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[–] doctorshady 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

For those familiar with the latest leak, can you explain what it means ( https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/07/new-leaked-tpp-chapter-reveals-countries-converging-anti-user-copyright ) for ISP liability, and general internet restrictions?

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[–] SteelKidney 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Well, that's part of the problem. The details of the TPP are secret. We don't know what the effects will be, although focus on online copyright issues have always had components of making ISPs responsible for content. We don't know that's the case with TPP, but it's more reasonable to assume that it is than otherwise. It's easier, and more permanent, to make these rules via international treaty than congressional legislation. Makes it reasonable to believe that will be the case.

But the secrecy is a real problem. Especially from a president that promised to run the most open and transparent administration ever.

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[–] syllovespan 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Here is the U.S. Trade Representative take on the TPP as well as past agreements for comparison. Trans-Pacific Partnership
While we don't know the exact language I think it's important to openly discuss and loudly let our governments know what we do and don't want in a trade agreement.

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[–] Harold_Falcon 4 points -2 points (+2|-4) ago 

Affect.

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[–] FredTheBartender 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

If you're going to criticize, contribute.