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[–] mojo4567 [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Yes, and i get that. in the future it very may well be near impossible to tell the upper class, from the lower class. That still wont negate that fact that the "majority" of people will be giving more than the receive, however that might look like, and that the minority will be receiving more than they give, however THAT might look like. I think part of our disconnect is that you are talking forms of social hierarchy mainly, decentralized social classes that wont resemble the pyramid we have had forever, and i am talking economic systems. Now, for decentralized economics there are plenty of great options, parecon being my favorite, that would work wonders. however, decentralized economics still fall prey to the same glut of expenses vs. income, and in a society where automation exists, the quality and output of your work will be the only thing that matters. We will not have time to worry about the effort of work, becuase things will move ahead with or without you, and only those who can keep up will get the job, becuase even in a decentralized society job specification will be needed, and especially in a decentralized society with automation we will have a case by case basis for everything where renumeration for effort will impede production rather than fairly equate it. So even if someone gets a job, and is rewarded with effort instead of output, they will only have been chosen becuase they are the best possible canidate for output, no matter if they are rewarded for effort.

So that is why decentralized economics will not help this problem. It will only disguise the pyramid in a new fashion, with employment shifting towards a more conservative hiring scheme, hiring only the minority for a position, becuase if you pay everyone based on effort that means that <50% are payed more than they are worth and >50% are payed less than they are worth. So, why would you hire the person who is only 49% "good" at this job to do it, when you will have to pay him as if he is 50% good at it. This is even worse than what we have now, becuase this means that instead of hiring someone based on if they produce profit for the company (it does not take alot of work or thinking to make mcdonalds 10$ an hour, giving them a $1 profit for you), they will only hire you if you are better than 50% of the people out there at something. All of this will cause rising unemployment, seeing as the majority of people will be unfit for jobs, and even in a decentralized world the pyramid will still exist due to this, causing the afformentioned problem, of declining population.

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[–] k_digi ago 

https://voat.co/v/Contact/comments/153828#submissionTop

see this - contrib if you like - it is not a joke.

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[–] mojo4567 [S] ago 

Interesting read. The implications of that are enormous, to say the least if they sign the deal

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[–] k_digi ago 

Ok just read the rest yeah, i guess it is hard to think in these terms, but you are thinking about "money" i am a decentralized economist, so i know everything about "money".

"money" is just a convenient token for "human energy and extended energy" in the system we have now "money" is issued exclusively as debt.

take the debt away and the system does not function. (as you can see)

"money" decentralized without debt is just (again) a token for "human" (here now) energy its just a token for exchange of things and services.

it can exist just fine in a decentralized environment. but it won't be like how it is now.

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[–] mojo4567 [S] ago 

About jobs :

I fully agree with you, in a fully automated society there will be no such thing as a job, no one will have to get a job, ect. and population will rebound and grow. However, this writeup is talking about what will happen leading up to the creation of total automation, ai and the whole nine yards. Until that happens there will be a demand for human labor, in one form or another, and there will be a demand for reconciliation for this labor. at a certain point, yes we will be fully automized, and the few things that are not automated yet, but will be, will be voluntary for one reason or another.

Now, the Money:

It doesnt matter whether money is issued like debt in this discussion, and of course money will still "work" in a decentralized society, It is treated, like you have stated, as an extension of human energy. Put in x, get y amount of "money". It doesnt matter whether money is centralized (USD, Yen, ect.) or Decentralized (bartering) in the future, it will still stand that A. Someone will own capital B. someone will "purchase" the labors of that "capital" and C. There will always be a minority that is better/more deserving to make profit off of that capital. So, no matter how money "works" in the future, everything i said in my last statement is still valid.

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[–] k_digi ago 

ok - wait, just stop for one second...

i'm going to read what you wrote , however you have a pretty big flaw in everything you wrote:

"get a job"

can you define this?

what is a "job" if there is automation and decentralized abundance remind me again why people are "working at a job"

nope what they will be doing is "contributing to society" it would be pretty much voluntary and would work a lot better than how it does now.

you see there are only a tiny few evolutions that humans need to kick this solution off, and as the process is decentralized it could start tomorrow, it could have already started you wouldn't know.