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[–] WarNeverChanges 0 points 90 points (+90|-0) ago 

Definitely not going to be an early adopter. I'll give it about 6 months, watch reviews, wait for any potential shitstorms to come and go. Make my decision during my free period.

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[–] Cuntpunter 1 points 24 points (+25|-1) ago 

This is the way to go with OS releases, folks

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[–] Drone 1 points 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

Tell that to Arch users.

jk I love arch

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[–] Wise-Old-Man 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Agreed. I am using Windows 10 currently, and I like it, but I fix computers for a living so I need to be out front on this stuff. I am telling all my customers to wait at least until the Fall (Sept-Oct) before upgrading and then call me first. I have no doubt that Aug. and Sept. will be spent fixing issues that come up unexpectedly once Windows 10 is out in the wild.

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[–] 017c 12 points 3 points (+15|-12) ago  (edited ago)

The problem is that the actual problem with this OS will not come up within 6 month, it will come in the form of the automatic update to "Windows" after their support cycle ends in a couple years. "Windows" will be from there on out on a yearly payment cycle and you will get the first 2 years free. Since you "upgraded your license" you have no legal recourse to go back to Windows 7 (sure you can buy it second hand), because you agreed to forfeit your right to windows 7/8 in exchange of getting windows 10 and windows 10 will automatically roll over into "windows".

If you do not want to pay a yearly fee, do not roll your windows 7/8 over into windows 10. You have been warned. They put the automatic update in not for convenience but for legal reasons, it allows them to convert it into a subscription model and drag you along into it or have major hassle.

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[–] AmericanCheese 1 points 19 points (+20|-1) ago 

Can you provide a link that supports these conclusions?

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[–] HomerSimpson 1 points 13 points (+14|-1) ago 

Sounds like more suspicion than actual fact to me.

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[–] chmike 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Windows is competing with free OS. See linux (i.e. Ubuntu) and Mac OS. I don't see a bright future along this path if Microsoft keeps trying to sell it's OS. So I expect it will provide a free version to avoid being wiped out. In the same time, they will probably try to leverage their ecosystem with commercial product. They will try for instance to reproduce Apple's app market, bing, etc. They have enough money in the bank to finance this pivot.

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[–] Qubert 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

So we shouldn't take a free upgrade to Win10 because the upgrade to Win11 might not be free? You expect free upgrades for life?

While you're probably right and future versions of Windows will not be free, talking about pricing strategies of Win10.1 or Win11 is pure speculation.

In 2017 there will be much better options than Win7. You won't want to be running that. Take the upgrade and enjoy it.

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[–] tribblepuncher 2 points 72 points (+74|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Definitely not, for many reasons.

The real clincher, though, is the automated, enforced updates. My experience with updates is that they're a bit of a Russian Roulette - I've had video cards fail because of them (much troubleshooting and several rollbacks fixed it), I've had the update sit and hold on the "please do not turn off your computer" prompt for 36 hours straight, I've had the thing reboot and lose everything I was working on because I left the keyboard at just the wrong time...

Sometimes updates are as much hassle as what they're supposed to protect you from. Worse yet, some updates are, obnoxiously enough, to update their DRM system (AKA "Windows Genuine Advantage" bullshit). This update literally serves no purpose other than to cripple your machine. Even if your install is legit, this runs the risk of tripping up some obscure bug and de-authenticating it. Even if it might be relatively simple to fix it, I shouldn't have to fix it at all.

However, by far, the #1 thing about Windows 10 updates that makes me want to have nothing to do with Windows 10? The fact that the updates are forced.

I own my computer. Not Microsoft. Me. I own it. They do not decide what software runs on MY computer. And frankly, even if it's easy to override this crap, the simple fact of the matter is that this is the next step in major companies trying to own the hardware that I bought. Microsoft is essentially dictating to you what software you will run or not run. They're doing it in the boot firmware and BIOS with their "secure boot" (yes, I know some Linux kernels are signed, that's not the point) stuff, which many manufacturers may make impossible to override. IIRC it MUST be impossible to override on tablets. That's in addition, of course, to the fact that they're doing it to the basic OS software by mandating that you will run the latest version of their code. And with behavior like this, who knows what else is in there - not that it matters since Microsoft can pretty much put whatever they want in there and you've got no choice but to accept it and like it.

So, no, fuck them.

Additional concerns come from some of the same old concerns - user interface woes, lack of disk space, potential incompatibility, etc. etc. Plus whatever alterior motives come from it being supposedly "free." Bloatware is put on new computers for a reason, after all. Plus it wouldn't surprise me if they did something to try to force you to get an account with Microsoft. I hear they did that with Solitaire, putting it in their store. Not precisely the most encouraging development. Their generally coy and sometimes amorphous or shifting responses to questions also puts me ill at ease, and I speculate that they are going to use this as an attempt to try to cram the Windows Store down your throat in a far more aggressive manner than before.

Considering there are still companies offering Windows 7-based computers, and several computer columnists I have read over the last 6 months have said there was an upswing in "typical" users who were suddenly rather interested in Linux over the last 6 months, I suspect I am very much not alone in these sentiments.

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[–] somerandomteen 2 points 23 points (+25|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Forced updates only apply to Windows 10 Home users. Professional upwards, updates can be deferred if you're unsure about them. If you're smart enough to understand about updates and Linux and DRM and Genuine Advantage, you get Professional. 'Tis that simple.

Edit: I AM NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF MICROSOFT, and have never claimed to be. Nothing I say here is speaking officially on behalf of them. Apologies if there was any confusion over this.

Updated with corrected language

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[–] tjap 0 points 19 points (+19|-0) ago 

why would they make that restriction? how am I supposed to fix my neighbours computer if it's in an update loop, or an update screwed up his pc?

I have a windows phone, a windows pc and an xbox but damn I really consider going to linux or bsd

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[–] tribblepuncher 0 points 17 points (+17|-0) ago  (edited ago)

It is profoundly disturbing that Microsoft believes that the correct answer to essentially having your fate dictated by Microsoft is "pay more," which boils down to Microsoft easing themselves back into their old tricks again. Not that that would change the firmware situation for one moment, although the answer to that is probably "pay more," too.

Though moves like this are obviously working hard to change that.

On top of that, you should advise whoever talks to your committee from Microsoft corporate that they had better put to rest speculation about Windows 10 Professional in terms of updates, because just about every story I've heard has it set that upgrades can be at most "deferred," not refused.

Here's one source on that: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/defer-upgrades-in-windows-10

This prevents them from coming down the pike for "several months" but doesn't stop them, and gives you no option as to the security updates.

It is unfortunate that Microsoft seems to be going the way of DVDs, in that the pirates are able to offer a better user experience than the company itself, by stripping off what is forced on them. This is especially bad if they're using home users as beta testers, as indicated by @SO_TRIGGERED and backed up by a citation from @Mixplate.

My computer, not yours. 'tis that simple, and that Microsoft is unwilling or unable to accept that without additional money (and at some point, probably not for any price) bodes very ill for all involved.

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[–] HelmedHorror 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

No, no, no. Even Professional users will be forced to install all updates or none at all. The only difference is that they can be postponed by 4 to 8 months. [1] [2] After which time you will be cut off from all security updates as well.

You either tilt your head back and let them force-feed you their bullshit feature updates while they stroke your throat and hold your jaw shut, or if you're a Pro user they'll give you a few months. But after that, it's "That's a nice secure OS you got there. Be a shame if security patches were to stop showing up on account of some silly mistake like refusing to install our freely-offered and totally brilliant feature updates that you couldn't possibly not want. You seem like a reasonable guy who likes his OS to be secure. We know you'll make the right decision. We'll be back in 4 to 8 months. We hope you'll have chosen wisely..."

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[–] just_signed_up 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Just a question. If I have Windows 7 Professional, and I upgrade to Windows 10, will it give me the professional edition or the home edition?

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[–] C_IsForCookie 1 points 9 points (+10|-1) ago 

WHOA! Forced updates? I wasn't upgrading as it was, but this puts an extra emphasis on my decision.

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[–] somerandomteen 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

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[–] Orbitrix 4 points -1 points (+3|-4) ago 

Only for Windows Home edition. What kinda newb has Windows home?

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[–] bicubic 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Ok so there's a very good motivation for forced updates - to get some handle on the rampant botnets that plague Windows due to missed security updates. Forced updates are going to be a great thing on the whole.

At the same time, I definitely share your concerns about forced updates being able to load unwanted software etc. onto your computer. Updates of any kind require you to trust the source, and in the "post Snowden" world, it's very hard to trust any US-based software vendor.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] Draegur 5 points 42 points (+47|-5) ago  (edited ago)

OH YES. absolutely! I'll tell you, I love it. Why?

The GUI is drastically cleaned up, all the superfluous crap has been scoured away. If a visual element didn't fulfill a purpose, POOF, GONE. Now the only stuff that's there is stuff that does stuff. No more dumb shiny glowy translucent effects, either! It's clean, it's fast, and by virtue of it being less distracting it's also easier to use.

There's also all the lovely intuitive features of windows 7 as well as none of that dumb home screen crap from Windows 8. Windows 10 is like... honestly it's like what we wish windows 8 had been all along. "Like 7, But Better".

Microsoft has once again proven that the tick-tock pattern holds true:
98 was great
2000 was crap
XP rocked
Vista sucked
7 ruled
8 drooled
10, naturally, is going to be AWESOME.

Heck, it already is! I've been running it in open beta and, exuberant emphatic expletives is it SLICK AS ALL GET-OUT. Made my 6-year-old PC feel like it was almost new again with its efficiency and response.

But you know what really excites me? Hololens. I don't know if this is the case right now, but, Win10 was being developed with AR integration in mind. It's not going to do anything stupid on your screen though; suffice to say I want a hololens, though. Turn my "Desktop" into a "Workspace" :D

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[–] C_IsForCookie 0 points 28 points (+28|-0) ago 

To me "easier to use" is another way of saying "we've removed options for manual configuration". I'm good with computers. I know how to use and fix them, but the new ones are made for people who can't troubleshoot. They've taken a lot of the manual configuration out in Windows 8. I don't know if they brought any back in Windows 10 but "easy to use" doesn't give me much hope.

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[–] Draegur 2 points 6 points (+8|-2) ago  (edited ago)

See, that's what I was afraid of at first too--but this is the thing that makes me LOVE Windows 10:
>Sees stuff removed
>ohnoes.jpg
>Looks for functionality
>STILL THERE!
>All the removed shit didn't do anything!

The advanced settings are still easily accessed; what's missing from each window is only strictly decorative elements.

That's why I was trying to be careful when I mentioned "easier to use". It's not because they dumbed it down; it's because they've shed the waste.

Manual configuration options are still there, presumably because they actually do stuff. Ornamental bezels around window borders... not so much.

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[–] dalek_caan [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

When I installed the preview it was mostly Next > Next > Next > Install. Like Win 8.

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[–] Pawn 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

if you can't find the manual configuration in wind8.1 then you aren't "good" with computer.

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[–] SquarebobSpongebutt 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

An example is the new Settings app. It is up front and kind of dumbed down, but you can easily put a shortcut to Control Panel in your Start if you want it. The Control Panel is still there.

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[–] dalek_caan [S] 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

The UI is clean, I agree. I installed the Preview a while ago, but I reinstalled my Win 7 after I heard that the Insiders will not get the RTM version (it was a clean install, not upgraded from 7). The only strange thing with Win 10 is the activation, what they mean with "lifetime of the device"? If I change my GPU, it would detect it as a new PC and I have to buy another key? I will upgrade to Win 10 100%, but I will wait 2-3 months.

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[–] TrayFly 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

IIRC the lifetime is based on the motherboard and if you've got an OEM license (as opposed to retail), you'll have to buy a new key if you replace your motherboard.

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[–] Wise-Old-Man 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

My experience with Windows activation is that it's mostly tied to the motherboard. Every single time I have to replace a motherboard Windows thinks it's on a new computer even with the same CPU and everything else. I have replaced CPUs and LOTS of hard drives without having to re-activate Windows. Replace a motherboard though and you WILL have to re-activate.

Usually doing a phone activation and answering the "How many computers has this copy of Windows been activated on" question as "One" resolves this problem.

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[–] bedbath 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Can you elaborate on insiders not getting the rtm version?

My build number matches what many sites are stating will be the rtm build. Only thing I have read is that if you are an insider build you may be stuck participating in the program on that device.

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[–] escape 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

You missed Windows ME, also 2000 was the opposite of suck.

98 sucked. 98SE sucked less. Also XP wasn't great until SP2.

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[–] Mongolera 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

2000 was amazing! It was the first consumer version with an NT kernel (that XP and onwards also use) instead of ME which still had the 9x kernel and was a train wreck. The only problem I can remember was that drivers were not readily available because of the different kernel. That said, I have used 2k for a long time, probably even until XP SP1 came out because XP without service packs was awful (again, mainly because drivers if I recall correctly)

[–] [deleted] 8 points 38 points (+46|-8) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] 1982 6 points 18 points (+24|-6) ago 

Do you also ride your penny farthing to the coffee shop you work at while wearing a giant moustache?

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[–] lawofchaos 4 points 12 points (+16|-4) ago 

Implying that Windows is the future? At this point I imagine anyone who still uses Windows to be an out of touch throwback from the past..

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[–] C_IsForCookie 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

Mac OS or Linux?

[–] [deleted] 7 points 34 points (+41|-7) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] PIK-SHOE 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

If they ditched Windows, they sure as hell won't be running Mac.

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[–] Orbitrix 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago  (edited ago)

All work and no play makes jack a dull boy. At least Dual boot Windows for native Withcer 3 and GTA5. Shits so cash.

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[–] 1360270? 1 points 18 points (+19|-1) ago 

I've suffered a few mental breaks while using windows so I'm sticking with linux.

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[–] cool_and_froody 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I've suffered a few mental breaks sitting in chairs so I'm sticking with unicycles .

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[–] Pawn 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

sounds like a personal problem. My condolences.

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[–] 1380489? 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

definitely a windows problem linux has never made me cry. thanks anyway though.

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[–] Antropomorphic 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

No, I used windows all my life until vista started it all and started switching slowly to Linux, when windows 8 was released, I started using more Linux than windows. now my computer is fully Linux and I'm absolutely comfortable.

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[–] BWandstuffs 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I have a similar kind of story, execpt I started looking into Linux about 2 years ago, then said "Fuck this I'm diving straight into Arch" after a having a BSOD (I'm the kind of person who endlessly tinkers with stuff), while watching a stream with my friends. I've been Linux only for about 10 or so months so far.

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[–] kuda 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Wow Arch as your first distro?

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[–] cheeki 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

I'll never upgrade, whenever something like windows is free, you are the product.

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[–] HomerSimpson 1 points 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

It's not really free though. You have to own the previous product to even upgrade for free. It still costs the normal price if you don't have a previous version.

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[–] TheBrokenWorld 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

It's free to everyone who has 7 or 8, that's a huge number of people.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] SquarebobSpongebutt 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

XP taught MS that it is best to get people to move to the most recent OS. Years of harping on how insecure Windows was but mostly because they had so many people running XP take a toll. And the support costs for that kind of thing are ridiculous.

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[–] un_salamandre 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Is anyone worried about the forced updates? That's what worries me.

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[–] dalek_caan [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

It is worth it to wait several months to see how it works, then upgrade.

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[–] Mongolera 1 points 1 points (+2|-1) ago 

I think it is great. Now that everything is always connected you need to update your software as fast as possible. Just look at the whole flash thing of last week. Security is a huge challenge these days. 10, maybe even 5 years ago you updated mostly because you want new features, now updates need to respond to real-life threats of unpatched code that is living on your PC. Before Microsoft needed to wait until patch tuesday (every month) to push updates and would push critical updates right away, but now they can change their update cycles completely to make sure collisions happen less and security patches are rolled out faster.

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[–] shab00tie 1 points 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

I'm glad they are finally doing it. This will go a long way to prevent the propagation of malware and other threats to the end user.

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