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[–] mineMineMINE [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I see the horror stories and I don't know what happened.

I've actually been tracking this one a lot. It basically boils down to outsourcing.

So, early on as the story goes, there were not that many programmers in the US. https://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/csedegrees1.png And, programming was covered by people who had a passion for it. On the graph you can see that there's a peak of cosc grads directly after a bubble bursts (much like me they went in with a promise of fortunes to be made, then everything collapses). With more graduates in the field then are required a downward trend in salaries comes about.

We also have to compete against the H1-B Indians and their oversees counterparts (I work in a foreign consultancy firm, the extent that my company works across the board is absurd). Who will produce what you ask for (they don't push back) at three times the speed you would get from an American firm (because they offshore the bulk of the work, even if you're working with an American face). This is partly because the real money from their point of view is not in good products but in maintaining ok products. It's well known that the more bugs you catch in production are hundreds of hours not having to hunt them down when the program is live. Well, they know this and purposefully do not do a good enough job to catch them all. This then creates a requirement that the software has to have a babysitter (that's where I sit currently).

To the bean counters this is a fine thing because they don't understand how buying a good product is better then buying a cheaper one. I've started to see the entire industry move towards producing what they call modular software (easy to take parts out and replace as specifications change). Really, this is a stopgap method. Yes, customers want new things fast, but that's primarily because the old ones are not well made.

So, that bit covers the salary. But, when it comes to how we're treated. Most large companies (I'm contracted to one of the largest currently) see tech as a profit sink. The bean counters see us as fucking up their margins. And, in many regards this is true. We don't directly lead to a profit, but without us their information flow would come to a screaming halt. So, they try to downsize and get skills we have for cheaper. Indian companies game this.

My actual resume vs what my company has me build are ridiculously different. You would think I'm master of everything that I had a weeks training on. They have the policy of get the foot in the door and you'll pick it up when you're there. This puts the training costs on the client company as uptake time is expanded. My favorite line from my managers is that the Indians will give support. That would be true if I was Indian. They hate my team, racist little shits (HA, we've played that back on them several times). But, in the long run (4-5 years) it is true that they cost less. They don't produce nearly as good of results, but that doesn't bother the client because the margin has shrunk on the books (initially).

But, with that sword of Damocles hanging over our heads management has taken into their head that we can be treated like shit and they can get away with it (till, oops their profile is having an issue and ohh how wonderful it is that you saved us - HAHAHAHAH BOFH taught me nothing).

You also have smaller firms needing a tech now. To these people we are tech-wizards that magic anything into existence and can do it for free on a salary of $30k. I wouldn't even look twice at these stories if it wasn't for the fact that there's some youth that will actually apply for these. WTF? I know that to them this is a step up in the world. But, that's doing just as much damage to the field as the H1-Bs are.

Anyway, that's me rambling all over the place. Basically, tech field is flooded, management doesn't understand us or our value.

Given that I've seen Coding Bootcamps pop up all over the place, I'm not expecting this problem to get any better any time soon. Need to find a new field or get an MBA.

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[–] TheBuddha 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Basically, tech field is flooded, management doesn't understand us or our value.

That's very similar to what I've read from Slashdot - thanks for the briliant write-up!

It's why I'd absolutely not tell kids to get into tech today. Take the T right out of STEM - with one exception. If they can handle the grind, web development still seems viable, if you're willing to learn a new framework every six months. If you want to do ST then, I'd absolutely recommend AI/ML/NN/GANs, etc... However, that's a very rapidly moving target and you're going to want a PhD. But, a PhD commands huge money in that sector! HUGE! Tencent, out of China, is paying hundreds of thousands or dollars - like up to a half mil, per year. Those are USD rates but paid in China.

Yeah... If I weren't retired, I'd be all over that. My doctorate is in Applied Mathematics, but I can probably come up to speed in 2 to 4 years.

If you've got the brains - maybe see if you can get in somewhere on the ground floor? You seem to be mostly a sys admin, but DevOps is big right now. That might get you in at an entry position doing ML somewhere. I'm posting a ton of resources in the AI sub, if you're interested. I see resources daily and many of them are pretty good. I've actually started to get a bit of a grasp on the subject.

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[–] mineMineMINE [S] ago 

I've been wanting to be in devops forever. Seriously, I used to program in about 5 languages fluently (Haskell, Scala, C/C++, Java, X86-64 Assembler), but now it's just down to Haskell which is too unknown to really get me anywhere. The SysAdmin role was thrown on me (when getting into the field I turned down 3 job offers because they said they needed sys admins and because I took a course on it in college I got the return call) when I was told I'd be moving into business analytics. Admittedly, I do use those skills (and my team would be humped if I didn't understand languages like I do), but it's primarily about usage reports or can I build some stupid sql script.

Unfortunately, I'm not that smart to continue in the IT field. I don't follow the trends, and I went into programming as a method of developing new and interesting things (oh, that was a mistake, should have stuck with chemistry and went into material science). AI is a simple enough concept, but I'd have to sink a good year into developing one to really understand it (I don't learn top down very well). And, going for a higher degree would be a suicide trip (I'm shit at school, no idea why, do wonders at work but somehow the work ethic doesn't translate over to school. Maybe because I'm trying to learn instead of pass ???)

But, if it wasn't me. You're advice would be a perfect fit for most people. ML is going to be a developing (and thereby a simplifying) field that will be heading the tech trends for at least a decade.

Think at this point I need to find something new I can throw myself into for a decade. Already covered a good bit of philosophy and politics, economics would be interesting.