We all know the Buddha claimed to be enlightened. And most claim in that same regard, Jesus was too. Buddha described it as an end to suffering, Jesus saw it as salvation.
I know it's an apples to oranges comparison, but many who claim to be enlightened say that everyone is capable of this. Along with the process comes compassion, forgiveness, lasting happiness, gratitude for all life, and really every positive emotion without any of the negatives.
So how do you guys feel about the concept?
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[–] Kromulent ago (edited ago)
Because we don't have any Westerners who have credibly managed it, as I've said.
Of course it depends what your definition of enlightenment is; there are certainly some folks who are unusually happy, and unusually kind, and who seem remarkable to those who know them. I suspect that many of these folks could't tell you the basics of any Eastern philosophy; they might have found their own way to an enlightened end, or they might just be on the long tail of the bell curve for no reason at all.
But I have never met, and never heard of, any living, accessible Western person who could credibly claim to have achieved enlightenment by following an Eastern Spiritual path to that goal. Some have become happier, healthier, better people, but enlightened, in my mind, suggests something more than that.
[–] heretolearn ago
Autobiography of a Yogi, Autobiography of a Western Yogi, and The Power Of Now. Interesting books. Touch on enlightenment from both angles. Judge for yourself and see if they've reached enlightenment by all definitions.
[–] 9176731? ago
By all definitions? Certainly not. Buddhism for example has a variety of traditions, some of which have very precise and specific definitions that excludes the vast majority of Buddhist masters. Whether we take "enlightenment" as either a gloss for ('awakening') byang chub or the rarer ('full awakening') sangs rgyas, in either of these cases none of these three texts suggest anything that corresponds to those specific definitions.
Of the three, the order you listed them in my opinion is the order of their quality. The former being excellent, the middle meh, and I personally found the latter to be a shade of terrible.
[–] middle_path [S] ago
I think that's fair enough. I don't think it's inherently eastern, I feel it does mainly come through meditation - and that concept has really only been around in the western world for the past half century.
But I guess I'm also including the saints in my definition of enlightenment - and they're westerners for sure.
[–] Kromulent 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
The world is full of legends. I'd like to meet an enlightened person, or participate with one in an AMA.
If I somehow managed to stumble upon a way to experience extraordinary happiness, with a new and different view of my place in the cosmos that rocked my old perceptions and left them feeling like a tired illusion, I'd like to think that I'd share this with the few million of my fellow citizens who would surely be interested. Why wouldn't I help them to the same satisfaction, and improve society and humanity as well? Isn't this what the ancient masters did, by writing and preaching, for just this reason?
"Guys, here's what I've learned. Here's the way I interpreted all those obscure and conflicting instructions, and this is what the path looked like to my 21st Century American eyes, and this is what it feels like now". I'm here every Monday to answer questions and I have a YouTube channel."
If I was legit, how badly would you want to hear what I had to say?
Now maybe enlightenment does something to people that turns that away from that sort of action, but if it does, that seems to conflict pretty strongly with what my conception of enlightenment is.
There are few religious or spiritual beliefs that offer a demonstrable, physical artifact as proof of their truthfulness. This is a rare example; if following a given path of instruction is said to offer the opportunity of enlightenment, then we should be seeing enlightened individuals, people who started like us, people who would see no reason to hide themselves away.
And I'd also expect that some of the folks who they set out to guide would find enlightenment as well. They would be pretty hard to ignore after a while, if they really managed the trick of it.