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[+]Rea11yN0tMe0 points10 points10 points
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[–]Rea11yN0tMe[S]0 points
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Thanks, it sounds like what /u/pipispapas wrote, that people are fatalistic and tired. Are you going to vote yes or no in the referendum? ie stay in the Eurozone or leave?
[+]Guerilla1 point44 points45 points
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[–]Guerilla1 point
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I'm going to vote no.
I think that Euro is a disaster of a currency that no sane economist would have ever approved before an actual political and economic unification of Europe so the only logical assumption that I can make is that they wanted this. They wanted a crisis so that they can ruin Europe's social safety net, can cut pensions and salaries and sell off our countries' national wealth to corporations. Naomi Klein indirectly predicted everything that happens now in the Shock Doctrine, an excellent book explaining how neoliberals create and then exploit crisis to shock entire populations into submission and rob them of their rights, salaries, pensions and so on. I read that book in 2007 and watched history repeat itself with shocking accuracy three years later. Only this time it wasn't Latin America being attacked, it was my country. So hell no, no way I'm voting for neoliberal policies that will turn my country into a mere colony to corporate interests.
I feel that you're probably right to vote "no", and I feel that the economic case against the Euro is strong. Specifically, I feel that the Euro Zone is not a "natural single currency zone". If Greece does leave the Euro it will face a difficult few years, but with time and hard work it should be possible to recover. That said, I feel you're wrong to cite Naomi Klein's conspiracy theories. I feel it's better to understand the Euro in the context of a specifically Germanic understanding of economic and social union that arises out of their particular history over the last few centuries, and in the context of a deep-seated French desire to (a) bind Germany and (b) yoke their economy to another large economy out of a desire for (economic) stability. In this context the Euro is not a "neoliberal" project but a profoundly "social liberal" one, but it is also a project that allows Germany to indulge in its long-suppressed desire to build an empire around itself. On balance I agree that Greece was on the road to becoming a colony, but not, I feel, of "corporate interests", but of Germany. The same is true of Italy, Spain and Portugal: unless they leave the Euro Zone they will slowly turn into German economic colonies too. Just be careful that you don't fall into the arms of a worse colonial power.
[–]zen_music0 points
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Guerilla, your assessment makes so much sense to me. I wonder how long this kind of clear thinking will be called "conspiracy nuttiness". I really hope there is a way for you Grecians to counter the sellout to corporate rule. I'm not hearing anything elsewhere in the world that works; these trade deals are making me very suspicious. I've been called a 'tin-hat brigade' member for such thoughts before; but as the saying goes, "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean somebody isn't following you!"
I don't read fatalistic or tired in their responses. On the contrary. I read resilience and solidarity. The corporations and their pet politicians may carve up a country as much as they like, people will find a way to survive. Besides, it is not as if there is no wealth in Greece. There is enough to carve up and share around to the people. Bet the corporations won't like that though.
[–]Rea11yN0tMe[S]0 points
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(edited ago)
Now everybody together :-)
Stand up, all victims of oppression,
For the tyrants fear your might!
Don't cling so hard to your possessions,
For you have nothing if you have no rights!
Let racist ignorance be ended,
For respect makes the empires fall!
Freedom is merely privilege extended,
Unless enjoyed by one and all.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale.
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal.
Unites the human race.
view the rest of the comments →
[–] Rea11yN0tMe [S] 0 points 10 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago (edited ago)
Thanks, it sounds like what /u/pipispapas wrote, that people are fatalistic and tired. Are you going to vote yes or no in the referendum? ie stay in the Eurozone or leave?
[–] Guerilla 1 point 44 points 45 points (+45|-1) ago (edited ago)
I'm going to vote no.
I think that Euro is a disaster of a currency that no sane economist would have ever approved before an actual political and economic unification of Europe so the only logical assumption that I can make is that they wanted this. They wanted a crisis so that they can ruin Europe's social safety net, can cut pensions and salaries and sell off our countries' national wealth to corporations. Naomi Klein indirectly predicted everything that happens now in the Shock Doctrine, an excellent book explaining how neoliberals create and then exploit crisis to shock entire populations into submission and rob them of their rights, salaries, pensions and so on. I read that book in 2007 and watched history repeat itself with shocking accuracy three years later. Only this time it wasn't Latin America being attacked, it was my country. So hell no, no way I'm voting for neoliberal policies that will turn my country into a mere colony to corporate interests.
[–] TelescopiumHerscheli 0 points 6 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago
I feel that you're probably right to vote "no", and I feel that the economic case against the Euro is strong. Specifically, I feel that the Euro Zone is not a "natural single currency zone". If Greece does leave the Euro it will face a difficult few years, but with time and hard work it should be possible to recover. That said, I feel you're wrong to cite Naomi Klein's conspiracy theories. I feel it's better to understand the Euro in the context of a specifically Germanic understanding of economic and social union that arises out of their particular history over the last few centuries, and in the context of a deep-seated French desire to (a) bind Germany and (b) yoke their economy to another large economy out of a desire for (economic) stability. In this context the Euro is not a "neoliberal" project but a profoundly "social liberal" one, but it is also a project that allows Germany to indulge in its long-suppressed desire to build an empire around itself. On balance I agree that Greece was on the road to becoming a colony, but not, I feel, of "corporate interests", but of Germany. The same is true of Italy, Spain and Portugal: unless they leave the Euro Zone they will slowly turn into German economic colonies too. Just be careful that you don't fall into the arms of a worse colonial power.
[–] zen_music 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
Guerilla, your assessment makes so much sense to me. I wonder how long this kind of clear thinking will be called "conspiracy nuttiness". I really hope there is a way for you Grecians to counter the sellout to corporate rule. I'm not hearing anything elsewhere in the world that works; these trade deals are making me very suspicious. I've been called a 'tin-hat brigade' member for such thoughts before; but as the saying goes, "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean somebody isn't following you!"
[–] Homo_ludens 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
Hear hear, man.
[–] borderpatrol 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Good for you. It's going to be a hard struggle, but I'm wishing you the best of luck.
[–] Homo_ludens 1 point 9 points 10 points (+10|-1) ago
I don't read fatalistic or tired in their responses. On the contrary. I read resilience and solidarity. The corporations and their pet politicians may carve up a country as much as they like, people will find a way to survive. Besides, it is not as if there is no wealth in Greece. There is enough to carve up and share around to the people. Bet the corporations won't like that though.
[–] Rea11yN0tMe [S] 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
Now everybody together :-)
Stand up, all victims of oppression,
For the tyrants fear your might!
Don't cling so hard to your possessions,
For you have nothing if you have no rights!
Let racist ignorance be ended,
For respect makes the empires fall!
Freedom is merely privilege extended,
Unless enjoyed by one and all.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale.
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal.
Unites the human race.