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[–] 6double5321 4 points 129 points (+133|-4) ago 

Unelected rulers.

[–] [deleted] 4 points 15 points (+19|-4) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] kcamstar 0 points 21 points (+21|-0) ago 

I might point out for those that believe that America is a Democracy... it is not. It is a Constitutional Republic and we only vote democratically.

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[–] embers 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Historically, democracies where only male citizens had the right to vote were very successful. Ancient Athens, the Roman republic, the British Empire, the US from 1776 until 1920.

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[–] 8677180? 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Ah, but those elected rulers, they're just fine!

The EU is a totalitarian organization and I don't disagree with you here, but I think the fact that so many of us actually accept the idea of elected RULERS is absurd.

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[–] aria_taint 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Mic drop, walks out of room.

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[–] Cuttwood [S] 12 points 0 points (+12|-12) ago 

As I answered in another post, do we not elect who represents us in the EU law making process by voting in the governments who send those people, and retracting said support for said parties if they do not represent our country in the EU as we want to be represented? How are they unelected, I thought each country has a say in the collective law making process.

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[–] freddymercury 0 points 16 points (+16|-0) ago 

As a case in point compare how Greece was treated in it's debt crisis to how Puerto Rico was treated recently in theirs. They are very similar. Puerto Rico is a colony of the United States. The EU was set up in a way that basically made the sovereign states of Europe colonies of th EU. In America there is only one dollar. If New York defaults on its debts the federal government has very little invilvement in how that goes down and there is no impact on people's pensions if they are held in banks. Unfunded pension liabilities could be preserved if future tax dollars are channeled to that goal. Being anti-EU does not mean I am anti-Europe.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 16 points (+16|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] 8675915? 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

You elect shit

The bilderberg rules the EU, the rest is a fucking kabuki

Call me conspiracy theorist and I redpill you to death

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[–] therealkrispy 1 points 8 points (+9|-1) ago  (edited ago)

The thing is, the crappy countries that aren't worth their weight in dirt all banded together a while ago, and ever since then, regulations have been targeted at handicapping the most important countries. You're out of your mind if you think Germany, after the US utterly destroyed them, put all their best scientists on a plane, then cut the country in half, fairly returned to being an economic superpower. They don't deserve to run the continent, and I say that as a person of German heritage.

The economic direction this overruling power took was one that, like the Democrats here in the US, was entirely chosen to benefit China, propelling those slavedriving pricks to being the second most powerful country in the world.

TL;DR: It's just losers propping up more losers by silencing the people and rigging the economy.

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[–] goatsandbros 3 points 74 points (+77|-3) ago 

Europe is not the EU. The EU is a fascist state.

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[–] hotairmakespopcorn 0 points 16 points (+16|-0) ago 

In support of your comment. I'm afraid people may not understand your comment is literal and not hyperbole.

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[–] pby1000 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

It is literal. The Fascists won WW2.

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[–] gazillions 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Europe is not a country either. It was a collection of autonomous countries and each had their own personality and identity. Now it's all a putrid mush of starbucks and muslims.

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[–] pby1000 1 points 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Yes, the EU is controlled by Fascists. So is the US and Britain.

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[–] roznak 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Well said, Sir!

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[–] neodevi 0 points 49 points (+49|-0) ago 

In my experience looking into the EU politics from an outsider perspective (I'm in the US), it seems that what is good for an individual country is ignored in preference of the collective EU.

Nigel Farage has a lot of good points as to why people are upset over the EU's involvement. For instance, he points out that the EU tries forcing legislation on individual countries, regularly punishing them for going against such legislation (ex: refugee acceptance, the Euro, etc.). Additionally, the EU cares less about the individuals of a country who may like their identity as a Brit, a Frenchman, etc. and instead try to forcefully push a multicultural utopia on people who aren't interested in it. Lastly, many of the times these EU leaders have no idea what it's like to be lower or middle class Europeans, regularly living in mansions and in fenced-off areas apart from the problems and blights of other Europeans (yet they exert control over everyone).

Everything the EU provides for countries can actually be achieved via alliances that already naturally exist. Trade deals, freedom of movement (across borders), and reactions to world events can be handled by individual countries, and can almost undoubtedly make better decisions for their individual citizens than the EU can.

I hope that gives you a basic overview. You may have differing opinions, but I would recommend listening to Nigel Farage, Marine Le Pen, and other proponents of Independence from the EU for additional, more in-depth details as to the logic. Unfortunately I cannot give much more as I have only skimmed the surface myself.

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[–] ponchoman275 8 points -1 points (+7|-8) ago  (edited ago)

For instance, he points out that the EU tries forcing legislation on individual countries

True but it should be noted that some of that legislation, especially in public health, the environment, food safety etc. are some of the most enlightened in the world. Personally I believe that those loathed eurocrats in Brussels are actually more competent in passing decent laws than the politicians in my country. If we're talking about the UK and Nigel Farage I honestly believe the EU is much more competent than the UK government. The refugee quota system is one of the worst things they have ever created but it gets ignored and there's no problem. Countries can opt out of the Euro.

Lastly, many of the times these EU leaders have no idea what it's like to be lower or middle class Europeans, regularly living in mansions and in fenced-off areas apart from the problems and blights of other Europeans

You just described every politician in the world aside from that cool Urugayan president who lived in a shack and a few Marxists in the 60's.

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[–] neodevi 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

Point 1:

Perhaps, but at the same time people like to feel that they are in control of their own countries, you know? It's similar to the moral questions of assimilation, what is more valuable: the collective or the individual? Countries being individual yet simultaneously collective have been an effective way of uniting people, caring for a collective and still giving them an individual identity. Many feel that the EU--being unelected and disconnected from their main identities as countrymen--are more of a forced assimilation into something too large to care for the individual. When people feel disconnected from those that rule them, well... dissent is generally increasingly likely, especially when legislation appears that goes against the traditions, instincts, or interests of the individual and collective countrymen.

Point 2:

Yes, I would agree, but the EU leaders also have the unusual traits of not being a part of the countries in which they rule, sometimes have never been to those countries, and are unelected by the people. I think this adds an additional edge to the cutting feeling of disconnect people feel from these leaders.

Of course, I reiterate that I am an outsider looking in. I have little stake in this, but this is just what I've seen.

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[–] 8675727? 1 points 11 points (+12|-1) ago 

" The refugee quota system is one of the worst things they have ever created but it gets ignored and there's no problem"

PWAHAHAHAAHAHH

NO FUCKING PROBLEM WHATSOEVER

Are fucking kidding me ?

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[–] AmaleksHairyAss 2 points 1 points (+3|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Eight noobs don't get Voat yet and think a downvoat is how to disagree.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 47 points (+47|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] pacman2000 1 points 21 points (+22|-1) ago 

A lot of voaters have nationalist sensibilities and I believe they feel the EU erodes away from national sovereignty and view the union as a step toward globalization. That's my guess. I personally have no issues with the EU.

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[–] 8675715? 1 points 14 points (+15|-1) ago 

Yeah

It's not as if EU was forcing every1 in to get overflooded with rapefugees

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[–] justdontberacist 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

There's a good argument to be made that it's not nationalism sentiment, but federalism and cultural diversity which people care about. People want the people of France to have democratic control over... the people of France. And so on. How this went from being labelled as one who supports democracy and freedom to one who supports nationalism, well you only have to understand that democracy is currently broken to understand that.

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[–] fortuitouslyunfallen 0 points 18 points (+18|-0) ago 

In the most simple terms I can muster at the moment; the EU seems to provide a lot of 'conveniences' at the cost of individual countries' sovereignty.

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[–] Cuttwood [S] 6 points -2 points (+4|-6) ago 

Well yes, but that's the whole point no? That's how I see it: I'm willing to give something up for the collective good. I never had a war in my liftetime but I understand before the EU there were quite a lot of conflicts.

One guy above I think put it differently:

In my experience looking into the EU politics from an outsider perspective (I'm in the US), it seems that what is good for an individual country is ignored in preference of the collective EU.

He puts it as something negative, but that's what I see as being the positive. I may be biased, I'm eastern European.

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[–] RonaldMcShitlord 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

Well yes, but that's the whole point no?

You're acknowledging that "the whole point" of the EU is to reduce individual countries' sovereignty, yet you pretend you don't understand why people are against this? Seriously dumbass? Are you just playing dumb or trolling?

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[–] 8675761? 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

NO that's not the whole point, we never voted for that fucking shit, we voted against and got it anyway

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[–] DietCokehead1 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

What "collective good" have they actually provided? They've only provided collective shittyness.

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[–] fortuitouslyunfallen 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I understand what you're saying but you didn't personally give anything up. I assume that you are young enough that the EU has always been in place. So you saying that you were willing to give up something that you never really had is a bit disingenuous and comes across as virtue signalling. Yes I think that the EU post-WWII was a good thing in that it instilled peace and may have prevented further major conflicts, but I don't know enough about history to be sure about that point. The problem that I have with the EU is that a) it is a step toward globalization and may begin aggressively promoting open borders, which will severely undermine the sovereignty of individual countries. Which is already beginning to happen in certain states, but I am unsure of the EU's involvement directly. b) there is never an equal say between nations and funnily enough states with less people technically have more say on a per person basis. It's like NATO, the US give the most money, and in return they expect to have the most say. So some nations can be pushed to the side and their issues glossed over in lieu of the 'greater good'. The problem is when the greater good begins slipping, where does it end? The US and other nations have undermined greatly civil liberties in the name of the 'greater good' but it hasn't and never will equalize with the security benefits. I.e. a complete loss of liberty will not make us 100% safe, because that's not how it works.

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[–] Rainy-Day-Dream 0 points 14 points (+14|-0) ago 

also remember in the 30s and 40s when lots of good brave young men died because they were told a lie about germany wanting to conquer and control all of europe? and now you're like "why can't a bunch of unelected assholes in germany rule over everyone?" the brain cancer might be terminal OP

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[–] Rainy-Day-Dream 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

look at switzerland, examine the economy and quality of life. Now compare it to greece and guess which ones in the EU

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[–] Cuttwood [S] 3 points 0 points (+3|-3) ago 

I have an objection to that comparison. It's not as simple as that, it's not apples for apples. Why Greece and not Sweden?

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[–] Rainy-Day-Dream 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

either one works

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[–] Rainy-Day-Dream 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

watch tim pools reporting from sweden

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