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[–] fleas 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

Poe's law? Someone help me out here.

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[–] Harvo [S] 3 points -1 points (+2|-3) ago 

I think my intent is fairly clear.

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[–] James557 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Best or worst president is completely subjective, but just as many arguments can be made that he's one of the worst. Just a few examples would be mass domestic spying and data collection, corporate bailouts, the healthcare plan may provide for many who didn't have it before but it also punishes many who cannot afford it but also wouldn't qualify for discounts.

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[–] Harvo [S] 3 points -1 points (+2|-3) ago 

Best or worst president is completely subjective

I agree completely and that is what I started my post with IMO

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[–] TheCaptinLove 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

  • He is the first black President of the United States A historical footnote is not an accomplishment.

  • He gave every single US citizen and legal immigrants access to healthcare for the first time ever. Who's going to pay for it? Medical care isn't free. As far as your statement about turning around the recession almost immediately, no he did not. How you can think that with any form of sincerity is completely astonishing. When so many Americans have simply given up looking for work (and are therefore technically not unemployed according to the government) and so many misemployed, i.e. someone with a college degree working in a burger joint, how can you possibly call the economic situation a recovery.

  • His stimulus bill Propped up irresponsible bankers, and protected the people who caused the recession in the first place. Instead of fixing the problem these same irresponsible people will once again give out mortgages and loans to people who can't afford to pay them off, having to instead spend many years simply paying the bloated interest rates that made these people rich at the expense of everyone else and in ten to fifteen years we'll be right back to where we were in 2008.

  • He ended the war in Iraq. Fair point. But the regime he left in place is disorganized, ineffective, tribalistic, and collapsed almost immediately once ISIS, i.e. the Syrian rebels Obama supported and wanted to supply arms to, spilled over into Iraq. We therefore find ourselves in a position were it might be necessary to go back to fix the mess he caused by getting involved in Syria.

  • He ended the war in Afghanistan. No he hasn't. We're in a process of slow withdraw but there are still American soldiers, and other allied soldiers, in the country who are still fighting. Also, last I checked the Taliban is very much undefeated, are they going to stop trying to take back Afghanistan just because we won't be there anymore?

  • He allowed gays to serve in the military. Homosexuals were allowed to serve under 'Don't ask, don't tell'. Also at the time 77% of Americans favored repealing DADT, it was hardly an ugly battle.

  • He stopped torturing detainees. No he hasn't. I don't where you got this idea from, but United States has not ceased its use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" or exporting detainees to third-world allies who gladly torture them on our behalf.

  • He killed Moammar Gaddafi. And now the once thriving nation of Libya (that had public education, free healthcare [that was paid for by oil revenues] a national irrigation system that allowed for farming in the desert, and public safety and order) is now an Islamist cesspool being fought over by the various tribes that Gaddafi had previously keeped in line.

*** He killed Osama Bin Laden.** Great I guess that means this whole war on terror thing is over wi- wait, no, that changed nothing.

  • He shut the "birthers" up in an epic fashion on the same week that he got Osama. Something he could have done the second the issue was brought up. So is being late an accomplishment? If you simply mean making Donald Trump, who started that whole thing, look ridiculous, he does a good enough job of that on his own.

  • Michelle's childhood obesity project. Wait, he gets the credit for her efforts?

  • He cares for the environment. He's the one pushing Keystone. how is sending more jobs to China helping the environment? Fuel efficiently is a marketing campaign (gas is expensive, car companies want to convenience you that you'll save money on gas with their product) the government had little to do with it. CO2 was considered a pollutant decades before anyone had heard of Obama. $90billion dollars in tax payer money that created jobs that went to China. Also caring doesn't mean squat if nothing meaningful comes out of it, an accomplishment is something that matters.

  • Free college Then why am I and everyone else who went/is going to college still paying for it? If we weren't paying for it who would be? All he did was endorse Bill Haslem"s( the governor of Tennessee) plan to provide free community college in Tennessee. No such thing has happened and if it ever did it would be Haslem's accomplishment, not Obama's.

  • Wall Street reform. Because when large sums of money are involved we can always trust politicians to never currently mismanage or turn a blind eye to financial mismanagement when someone, say a lobbyist of these financial institutions, offers the appropriate 'gifts'.

  • He repaired America’s reputation overseas. Well somebody better tell the people over seas because last I heard they're all still pissed about out of control drone strikes, the NSA spying of world leaders and others, needless intervening in other counties' affairs, and overall continuing to operate as the world's police. Popular dissension is the only thing that prevented him from starting yet more needless wars in Libya and Syria. If you wouldn't let your political sympathies blind you to reality you would realize that in terms of foreign policy Obama is Bush on steroids.

And there you have my counter-argument. Barack Obama is far from the best anything, and while I won't say he's the worst U.S. President there's ever been he is definitely up there.

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[–] 76LeMans 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

Hey everyone, I apologize if I spammed the crap out of the comments below. My phone was saying "wait 30 seconds...." and wasn't showing anything. I left several times and finally after about 5 minutes, they all showed up at once.

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[–] 76LeMans 0 points 1 points (+1|-0) ago 

I don't think anyone has taken a true stab at answering your question, so I'll give it a go. I'll throw in a few points below. I don't have all of the research to fully back up why I disagree, but hopefully you'll accept this at conversation value. This isn't intended as a "I hate Obama" rant, but more as a counter argument. Also, these are also all just my own opinion.

I don't think being the first black president should have any impact on your greatness. There were a lot of other Presidents who were first. Teddy Roosevelt was the first to travel out of the U.S., Woodrow Wilson was the first to visit Europe while in office. Nixon was the first to be impeached, and the list goes on for firsts. It doesn't necessarily indicate whether you are great or not. It just means you're likely to be remembered for something.

I believe Obama fully believed in the ACA , but feel he started in the wrong place. Forcing Americans to have health insurance in an industry that is woefully inflated and mismanaged is in my opinion a failure. I believe for it to be truly successful, he should have started with the industry and cut costs. It doesn't do you (or tax payers) any good to have insurance paying 80% if that 80% leaves you still owning thousands. It's really just forcing every American into a system of money collection and profit for the health industry. When we see hospitals still charging markups in the 1000% range, the system is clearly broken.

Markets are cyclical. Not saying it didn't have an impact, but you'll always see ups and downs. In this case, could it perhaps have been that after the massive down, we were seeing an uptick in it and as a result, it looked highly successful?

He did end both wars, I concede those points and applaud both.

While he has stopped the torture, he has closed the places he said he would. If you believe it that much, follow through and shut them down.

He was in office when Osama was killed. However, it took years of work for Osama to be found, including undercover work and obvious distrust of an ally in Pakistan to do so. Had someone suspected this earlier, perhaps it would have been Bush. Plus, he gave the order. Many presidents have given many orders for assassinations (or attempts). He just gave a successful one for one of the most hated men in the world. Really right place at right time scenario in my opinion.

Free college could be looked at in economic terms as devaluing the existing degrees that people have paid for. If he truly was interested in fixing education, why not tackle the student loan issue. We're leading down a road where nearly every American is going to have nearly $30k+ debt straight out of school. It honestly appears as unsustainable as the housing bubble.

Many could easily argue the opposite of opinions overseas. For instance, look at the destruction of the relationship with Russia.

Also, in addition, he promised that whistle blowers would be given protection and failed.

He's used drones to kill more people than any other President (all be it this is an unfair statistic, given that drones are new and its outside of war. What if we add in war deaths?)

NSA spying and destruction of personal freedoms. He's done nothing to curtail this.

A near complete deterioration of race relations in America. Perhaps other presidents ignored it, or perhaps it is worse. Also, he appears to trumpet his horn loudest if an African-American is killed by an officer. Why about if a Caucasian is killed by an officer? If he truly wished to promote racial relations, shouldn't he address any situation no matter the color? He also continues to allow racial bigots to be of influence (looking at Al Sharpton). Shouldn't he be distancing himself from anyone who insights racial tension and hatred? Why isn't he instead do everything possible to reach out to leaders in all communities that are known for their peaceful actions and want to restore racial relations?

Now, whether you believe those or not, I'm arguing against best President ever. You're talking about over FDR, Kennedy, Lincoln etc. A few thoughts below.

FDR - End of depression, decision to enter WWII, etc. Massive job creation through programs meant to pull America out of depression. Some of the largest public works projects in U.S. history.

Kennedy - Space and NASA. These alone are hugely monumental.

Lincoln - The willingness to do anything necessary to preserve the U.S. Even knowing it would mean the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. Without him, there's no Obama, Kennedy, or FDR.

Others - Wilson with WWI, Truman with the atomic bombs (knowing we only had 2 and it was a massive risk), Eisenhower with the interstate system (tell me you've never been on one).

I'm not arguing for or against if he's great. Just that he's not the greatest. I give it to FDR for the shear amount he went through in office and everything he did for this country.

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[–] Fuzzycrumpkin 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Your best president is a dictator? Really?! This guy uses the constitution as toilet paper and he is the best we ever had... You might like to move to Russia or China I'd think you like it better there.

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[–] Harvo [S] 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

Dictator? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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[–] Fuzzycrumpkin 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

No I know what it means, it is fine if you don't agree. For whatever reason you think he has done no wrong. A large percentage of the population would disagree with you. I think he one of the worst Presidents we've had since probably Reagan or Nixon. Fast track and tpp alone prove that. Wanting a bill passed without knowing what's in it is just one of the most corrupt things I've think I've ever seen in politics. That is the equivalence of leaving your five year old home alone trusting he will do the right thing. I don't know about you but I wouldnt even be surprised if the house was burned down when you came back.

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[–] TheCaptinLove 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

I'm afraid I must also apologize for any spam. The sight kept telling me to wait for 30 seconds and now my comment has been shown to have been submitted a ridiculous amount of times.

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[–] ZenZenWakarimasen 0 points 0 points (+0|-0) ago 

It's sad to see this post getting downvoted so much and so quickly. Not because I necessarily agree with you, but because it's a good question for conversation.

You do make some good points in your post, a lot of good things happened during his term, but to say that these things happening made him a good president... Well, it's arguable that many of these things would have happened with or without him and to say that "he did them" isn't quite accurate, it requires a lot more than the Presidents desire to make anything happen, really. Let's not forget the many blunders of the presidency, too.

All in all I actually don't think he is a terrific president. However, sadly I have to agree with you. He's the best we've had an a long tome.

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