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[–] therealsharpie 0 points 24 points (+24|-0) ago 

Yes. Nobody wakes up and wants to have their minds changed. They either want to destroy someone in an argument or hear an echo of their own opinions.

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[–] Gerplunckamo 2 points 5 points (+7|-2) ago 

They either want to destroy someone in an argument or hear an echo of their own opinions.

To learn more, visit your local safespace.

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[–] IpunchNazis 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

Savage

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[–] RedditisPropaganda25 ago 

I heard the Socratic method of having a dialogue with questions with the person first examine their own beliefs and assumptions first is the most effective method in helping someone see an alternate view.

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[–] BGAIN 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

An issue is we have oodles of shills being paid money to sell a fake narative for their employers financial benefit, for example big pharma vaccine shills, to the detriment of everyone else, logic and belief are no consideration of a shills reasoning or counterpoint.

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[–] SpeshulSnowflaek ago 

Sharpie is right, but sometimes in this life you actually do need to change a person's mind.

For that, you should look at Scott Adams for most cases, with the understanding that if what you're debating truly is logical (e.g., should we design this process with three little reactors or one big-ass reactor), the Scott Adams stuff will need to be mixed with the real arguments.

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[–] dsy-cow ago 

wrong, i do

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[–] therealsharpie ago 

Let's start. Silver tequila is the best form of alcohol hands-down.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Plavonica 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Bingo! Changing people's minds does happen. It takes a lot of time and effort however, and many aren't willing to put in the effort.

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[–] Prophet_60091_ 0 points 8 points (+8|-0) ago 

Backfire Effect : when you present people with evidence that counters their beliefs, they have a tendency to double down. People are tribalistic apes with nukes. Your facts don't matter. Trying to change someone's mind with well reasoned arguments is for chumps. You're going to fail and just waste your own time.

There's a reason advertisement changed drastically in the 20th century with the rise of psychology. The greatest failing of pre-20th century political thinkers was the assumption that man is a rational animal and behaves according to rational dictates. Psychologists noticed people behaved differently than the political philosophers imagined. Propagandists and later marketing/PR firms caught on and began to exploit this. Products were no longer sold by listing their benefits, instead advertisement focused on creating a feeling of emotional desire for a product by convincing the public that their lives were somehow incomplete or less without the product.

It's because people aren't rational.

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[–] Approved 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

In sales, it's called "Sell the sizzle, not the steak."

You're not selling the item, you're selling the good feelings and pleasant sensations associated with the item.

When selling a pre-packaged ideology, you're not selling a rational and tested look at the universe... you're selling the feeling of superiority and wisdom associated with having the best ideology.

Works the same whether you're selling SJW-ism, Marxism, Atheism, Christianity, Islam, Democracy, Naziism, White Power, Black Power, Scientology, or whatever.

99% of humans are animals in clothes, so logic don't mean shit.

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[–] ThisOtherGuy 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Look up the Backfire Effect study. Facts don't matter. Ignorance is as good as fact. And the dumb of the dumb think that there is a link somewhere out there of decades worth of material for them, and that if you don't provide an education to them, then you are completely wrong. You know, because you've saved everything you've ever read, including books with links to it. Because you are knowledgeable, you are wrong until you stop everything and educate them. The mere suggestion that a single headline doesn't make their opinion informed means you're completely wrong on everything. Then other dumb people join in.

Humanity has never had more information readily available yet encouraging people to use it for themselves means you're an ignorant, arrogant, asshole. And therefore wrong about everything.

People are dumb, stupid animals. Most people don't know they are dumb. Most people can not recognize intelligence standing in front of them. And a degree doesn't make one intelligent or wise, but only educated. Actual studies support this. So when you have the dumb of the dumb absolutely sure they know more than a learned person, well... you can't fix stupid. There is no rational argument to change this.

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[–] alele-opathic 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

And a degree doesn't make one intelligent or wise, but only educated.

Don't make the mistake of confounding education and schooling. Consider reading John Taylor Gatto if you are curious about why the two words' definitions are intentionally confused in modern language.

 

Also, do remember that the 'modern' scholastic system (the 'Prussian Model') was not imported into the US for reasons of education, but for reasons of forced compliance and homogenization of the population. It was very strongly resisted at first, and was only finally forced on Massachusetts after nearly 4 decades of shilling and propaganda.

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[–] ThisOtherGuy 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Fair enough. When I wrote that I struggled to think of a better word . That's a fair correction you've provided. Will check it out.

Thank you.

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[–] AmaleksHairyAss 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Yes. I believed that for over ten years and it helped fuck up a large part of my life.

People believe in you if you make them feel good full stop.

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[–] DiscontentedMajority 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

You won't be able to convince everyone using good arguments, but you will be able to convince some people.

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[–] 1WinfieldBlue 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Yes

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[–] Empress 1 point 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

When arguing, you're not trying to change the mind of the person you're arguing with. You're trying to sway the person reading.

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[–] 7815004? ago 

Not always, but a lot of the time, this is true. And it's much more frequently true on the internet.

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[–] BGAIN 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

It's true a lot of times as frequently we argue with paid shills who do not function on logic or belief but rather an agenda of their employers.

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