"The Waco siege was the siege of a compound belonging to the Branch Davidians, carried out by American federal and Texas state law enforcement, as well as the U.S. military, between February 28 and April 19, 1993. The Branch Davidians were led by David Koresh and were headquartered at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Axtell, Texas, 13 miles (21 kilometers) east-northeast of Waco. Suspecting the group of stockpiling illegal weapons, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) obtained a search warrant for the compound and arrest warrants for Koresh and a select few of the group's members.
The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four government agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege lasting 51 days was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out of the ranch. During the attack, a fire caused by Federal agents engulfed Mount Carmel Center. In total, 86 people, 82 of which were innocent died, including David Koresh. "
Daily reminder that you're living in a nightmarish police state.
OP - https://8ch.net/pol/res/12371256.html
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[–] 16383113? ago
I admit I don't know much about the Davidians before the siege events. I doubt however that no one knew they existed and the politics surrounding them completely friendly given that they began arming themselves. However, looking at other cases where a cult or small-group drew federal attentions to it, the troubles almost always began on a local political level. Rajneeshpuram ran aground immediately with an environmentalist group and later irritated (and overwhelmed) the township of Antelope, which gathered attention to it. Rajneeshpuram also armed itself after an opportune Muslim attacked some building near them and uses the excuse of outside hostility to do it, which meant that the cultists already felt the opposition before that point. I'm sure the Davidians observed something similar as well before Waco, otherwise they would have been absolutely defenseless when the situation escalated.
To the system, it basically is. Remember that a government is not a person. It is not human despite its operations being done by humans, in the same way that an ant colony is not an ant despite being made of ants. Humans want to stop rape and murder because it hurts and kills humans, while a government wants to stop rape and murder because they are hyper-disruptive to the tax base and productivity in a tangential way. Tax evasion however is, like you said, a direct assault on their ability to collect resources. More than murder or rape that does harm to a tax base here or there in the current moment, tax evasion deprives immediate resources to the government and can easily spread if they get away with it. An unresponsive tax base is a mortal threat to the system itself in the same way a plastic bag over your head is a more immediate threat than obesity is, which is why it spends so much time and vicious rapidity in punishing people for doing it.
I think we don't disagree really on this point. I just take the approach that sees the animal that is the system, which humans have to deal with whether it is good or bad or somewhere in-between. I find taxation to be not evil in itself any more than eating is, but it can be done unjustly or justly depending on other factors. Anyway, if no government accused them of tax evasion as you say, then it likely wasn't the particular issue at hand. That doesn't preclude other political considerations being at play that, like rape and murder, were seen as less-immediate but still important threats to the system. For instance, some local power or powers wanting them removed for some reason and leveraging the system to react against them by providing some form of justifying context.
Study Hutterites for a great example of modernized Amish. They're shrewd bastards in business and politics who leverage their religious oddities to guilt local people and their governments into tolerating their existences. Amish and Hutterites interact in generally friendly, productive ways with the outside world, and likely is why they are tolerated (despite Hutterites sometimes being shysters and thieves). A compound of cultists who cut themselves off from the outside world completely or interacts outside of their group with overt aggression or negativity frightens local people, which provides context to rooting them out. I don't know if the Davidians started doing that or not, but if they were moving that way it would have bred suspicion and context for political opposition to use against them. Hutterite colonies multiply quite well where I live and don't offer a threat to the government, but they have the advantage of being clever with their off-gridding methodology. Hutterites do not get Waco'ed despite being massive landowners and successful businessmen. Might be useful to learn from them for your establishment of posterity minus the being manipulative assholes part.
Governments either consider humans productive towards itself, neutral, or damaging through how they interact with its sensory organs. It can sense its food supply (taxes) and whatever its attendants feed it (political people). Governments are blind and rely on inputs from its attendants to determine what to do. In some cases a single person who hates you can pull strings to roll the government down on top of you. That's why I say that if you don't pay taxes or if you upset some kind of political balance, that will result in some kind of action from the government. Politics are unavoidable if you have the capacity to do anything of note, which is just a reality to deal with. And you deal with it either by hiding in plain sight and be unassuming, or interacting with local powers somehow.
[–] 16383122? ago
<the only reason to buy guns is if you've already incited people's hatred toward you
We have a severe difference in premises here. Where I stand, men arm themselves because that's something which free men do so that they can independently defend their own lives, property, liberty, and posterity from both street criminals and State criminals.
Compare concepts:
<you don't need a gun, unless you already mistreated people and got them angry
<you don't need privacy, unless you have "something to hide"
<you don't need freedom of speech, unless you want to say something wrong
<you don't need the freedom to read, unless you want to look at neo-nazi hate speech and other pornography [note: in Germany and some other European countries, porn censorship laws were used to censor, seize, and destroy "nazi" literature before specific laws were passed for that purpose — all while racially degenerate actual pornography was ignored]
<you don't want to keep the products of your own labors, unless you are a hate-filled fascist who wants to deprive noble niggers, magnanimous mestizos, and other deserving "underprivileged" of their human rights to multiply at your expense
<you don't need a right to live, unless you are a racist neo-nazi bigot who discriminates against your whole species becoming extinct
Contra your assumptions, all reports not from the Jewish liepapers agree that the Davidians were on good terms locally, in particular with the local sheriff's department. Several posts upthread have discussed this; I suggest that you re-examine the facts. (To avoid any suspicion of my own biases, I emphasize, I myself am actively anti-Christian; and I loathe the meddlesome ways of Christian evangelicals.)
Again, to avoid red herrings, I will avoid going off on a tangent about Rajneeshpuram.
(Continued…)
[–] 16383123? ago
>>12455238
You treat government as if it were a natural phenomenon! But although degenerate governments run amok do indeed tend to display the collective emergent behaviors you describe, government is nevertheless made by men; and as with all things man-made, the question must be asked as to its purpose.
In the past, I myself made the same mistake. Rather than observing only the concrete form of governments currently existing, take a deeper look at government in the abstract.
For reasons too complex to elucidate in a /pol/ post, I recognize only one proper purpose for a government:
For ants, an ant colony actually meets that definition of the purpose of a "government". The order of the colony "is to preserve and promote a community" of kindred ants — and it is indeed the means of their reproductive survival as a species! All ants work together, so that their queen can lay the next generation of eggs — not so that she can "collect resources", as you put it.
But again, human governments are made by men; and you err in treating them as if they were facts of Nature. If men have created a government which exists for its "ability to collect resources" as you say, i.e. to enslave the populace, then it is not only failing that purpose, but actively contradicting it.
And whenever a State has no proper purpose, it is not only the right but also the duty of every man to resist and overthrow it. I would even prefer bloody, miserable anarchy as a lesser evil compared to an omnipotent tyranny which systematically enslaves and exterminates the White race (this last ongoing via demographic genocide and miscegenation). I am not here drawing a dichotomy: I am describing what we actually have today, both in the United States and in Europe.
So, they are eager participants in the game of chasing the Federal Reserve debt-scrip which Americans use instead of money.
Otherwise stated, they are not a threat to the System.
It is myopic at best to support a System which will eat your children if and when it finds that convenient. So much for posterity. Let's see how well the Hutterites fare when they are swamped by a non-White majority, who will be immune to all attempts to "leverage their religious oddities to guilt local people". Neither Chinese nor mestizos are susceptible to such "guilt".
(And neither are niggers — but that doesn't really matter; I expect that the universally hated niggers will be physically exterminated when either the Chinese or the mestizos gain power, probably within the next 100 years in North America. Observe how within the past 10-15 years, mestizo gangs have already been ethnically cleansing territory they desire in the Los Angeles area. They have no qualms about shooting pickaninnies in the street, for maximal terror effect. The jewsmedia try to paper over this, to sustain the White "liberal" lie that only Whites are "racist" and all the colored folks just love each other. Meanwhile, the Chinese have been quietly colonizing Africa; come time, the ruthless Asians will exterminate every nigger in Africa with exactly as much emotion as you would feel when spraying cockroaches.)
I will here paraphrase and adapt Captain Ramsay's observation that the Jew paralyzes resistance with avarice encouraged by his capitalist right hand, before his left hand strikes with the revolutionary dagger of proletarian agitation.