"The Waco siege was the siege of a compound belonging to the Branch Davidians, carried out by American federal and Texas state law enforcement, as well as the U.S. military, between February 28 and April 19, 1993. The Branch Davidians were led by David Koresh and were headquartered at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Axtell, Texas, 13 miles (21 kilometers) east-northeast of Waco. Suspecting the group of stockpiling illegal weapons, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) obtained a search warrant for the compound and arrest warrants for Koresh and a select few of the group's members.
The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four government agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's failure to raid the compound, a siege lasting 51 days was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Eventually, the FBI launched an assault and initiated a tear gas attack in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out of the ranch. During the attack, a fire caused by Federal agents engulfed Mount Carmel Center. In total, 86 people, 82 of which were innocent died, including David Koresh. "
Daily reminder that you're living in a nightmarish police state.
OP - https://8ch.net/pol/res/12371256.html
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[–] 16383101? ago
Naturally, as would any system with self-preservation mechanisms. What going off the grid means is to create a city-state that is ungoverned and unaccountable to the system that has, by various rights, laid claim to that land now being taken by those not of its system. Any governmental system that would allow its own territories to be taken up by those who want separation from that system would soon cease to exist as various powers would grow to the point of doing serious damage to that system.
Now, most of the time the troubles for these little off-gridders starts on the local level. Local governments, particularly those that have low populations (i.e. low tax bases), will care a lot if suddenly a new city incorporates in it that might upset the local political ecosystem. Look at Rajneeshpuram and how they ran into problems mainly due to local groups and townships first because the cultists overwhelmed local political processes without taking complete hold.
Following that model, there are two strategies if you want to go and make your own township. Either:
The former requires city and county governance takeovers in order to shape laws and ordinances in your group's favor. The latter requires your group to be basically so disinteresting on the surface that it hides in plain sight and doesn't threaten the system. If you pay your taxes and don't upset politics, they won't even know you exist.
This is more to the point of a different thread, but basically if the goal of your off-gridding is to just disappear and not be bothered by the state, then just pay your taxes if any and live in your own little cabin or commune where governance doesn't notice you. If your goal is to create a society that is suitable for your posterity, that will require political action and is incompatible with off-gridding unless it is in truly ungovernable territory.
[–] 16383102? ago
This anon gets it — mostly, I think.
In questioning or elaborating on a few points, I will avoid red herrings of comparing various groups said to be cults, save to observe that the Davidians did not proselytize, and were generally well-liked by their neighbors.
I think it is important for people to understand why the Davidian community was offensive to the System on a very deep level.
Like the Davidians?
Yes, I know that White niggers who insufficiently serve (((massa))) are guilty of "tax evasion", a crime worse than rape and murder. I presume that the Davidians were not guilty of this "crime" — for if they were, they certainly would have been accused of it.
Paying taxes requires possession of the Federal Reserve trading stamps which American slaves use instead of money. The Davidians apparently obtained these trading stamps with a gun business, for which they had a legal FFL. I did say they were "semi-detached from the System".
To be clear, I don't think that "tax protestors" do any favors for their posterity by painting a big target on their backs over this one issue. I view the issue with strict pragmatism: In wartime, a man must do things which are unpleasant, sometimes even outright criminal. It is indeed criminal to support the System with tax payments; I only excuse those few who do so for a strategic advantage, so that they can maintain the freedom of action to escape the System in other ways, or even harm it outright. I suppose that is your point here; if so, we don't disagree.
Like the Amish, and similar old sects? I do expect that if the Amish were new, they would get the Waco treatment, despite their obscene pacifism.
Otherwise, what the hell is the point? If not for the motive of posterity, there is really no reason not to move to the city, scratch up some jewbucks, and screw as many whores as you can. Masturbating in the backwoods achieves nothing more; and it is considerably less fun, by most people's standards.
Everybody dies. The sum total value of a man's life is only in what he leaves behind him.
[–] 16383113? ago
I admit I don't know much about the Davidians before the siege events. I doubt however that no one knew they existed and the politics surrounding them completely friendly given that they began arming themselves. However, looking at other cases where a cult or small-group drew federal attentions to it, the troubles almost always began on a local political level. Rajneeshpuram ran aground immediately with an environmentalist group and later irritated (and overwhelmed) the township of Antelope, which gathered attention to it. Rajneeshpuram also armed itself after an opportune Muslim attacked some building near them and uses the excuse of outside hostility to do it, which meant that the cultists already felt the opposition before that point. I'm sure the Davidians observed something similar as well before Waco, otherwise they would have been absolutely defenseless when the situation escalated.
To the system, it basically is. Remember that a government is not a person. It is not human despite its operations being done by humans, in the same way that an ant colony is not an ant despite being made of ants. Humans want to stop rape and murder because it hurts and kills humans, while a government wants to stop rape and murder because they are hyper-disruptive to the tax base and productivity in a tangential way. Tax evasion however is, like you said, a direct assault on their ability to collect resources. More than murder or rape that does harm to a tax base here or there in the current moment, tax evasion deprives immediate resources to the government and can easily spread if they get away with it. An unresponsive tax base is a mortal threat to the system itself in the same way a plastic bag over your head is a more immediate threat than obesity is, which is why it spends so much time and vicious rapidity in punishing people for doing it.
I think we don't disagree really on this point. I just take the approach that sees the animal that is the system, which humans have to deal with whether it is good or bad or somewhere in-between. I find taxation to be not evil in itself any more than eating is, but it can be done unjustly or justly depending on other factors. Anyway, if no government accused them of tax evasion as you say, then it likely wasn't the particular issue at hand. That doesn't preclude other political considerations being at play that, like rape and murder, were seen as less-immediate but still important threats to the system. For instance, some local power or powers wanting them removed for some reason and leveraging the system to react against them by providing some form of justifying context.
Study Hutterites for a great example of modernized Amish. They're shrewd bastards in business and politics who leverage their religious oddities to guilt local people and their governments into tolerating their existences. Amish and Hutterites interact in generally friendly, productive ways with the outside world, and likely is why they are tolerated (despite Hutterites sometimes being shysters and thieves). A compound of cultists who cut themselves off from the outside world completely or interacts outside of their group with overt aggression or negativity frightens local people, which provides context to rooting them out. I don't know if the Davidians started doing that or not, but if they were moving that way it would have bred suspicion and context for political opposition to use against them. Hutterite colonies multiply quite well where I live and don't offer a threat to the government, but they have the advantage of being clever with their off-gridding methodology. Hutterites do not get Waco'ed despite being massive landowners and successful businessmen. Might be useful to learn from them for your establishment of posterity minus the being manipulative assholes part.
Governments either consider humans productive towards itself, neutral, or damaging through how they interact with its sensory organs. It can sense its food supply (taxes) and whatever its attendants feed it (political people). Governments are blind and rely on inputs from its attendants to determine what to do. In some cases a single person who hates you can pull strings to roll the government down on top of you. That's why I say that if you don't pay taxes or if you upset some kind of political balance, that will result in some kind of action from the government. Politics are unavoidable if you have the capacity to do anything of note, which is just a reality to deal with. And you deal with it either by hiding in plain sight and be unassuming, or interacting with local powers somehow.
[–] 16383104? ago
>>12453786
<in a country which does not understand that a president with a jewish posterity will annihilate white people
Sigh.
[–] 16383103? ago
I should add that, of course, it is precisely those actions which would >>12453557
…which will get you Wacoed.
If you hole up in the backwoods alone, stay under the radar, just sit there with a pile of guns and preserved food, then unless it has the whimsical urge to make an example of a random someone who happens to be you, the System will probably leave you alone. Because all you do is meaningless, and will die with you. That is exactly what marks you as not a threat! It is not about "paying taxes" or not "upsetting the local political ecosystem". Doing nothing for your posterity is what makes you "safe" for the System.