You are listening to people who have limited understanding/lack perspective. Here is what you can know that others don't know about the USA association with Jihaidst/Salafist forces and educational movements as it pertains to Pakistan/Afghanistan/Turkey and the Sunni Arabs:
COLD WAR policies being taken too far forward after the end of the Cold War. That is what you are seeing.
The Cold War was real...but it ended. In order to rally forces against the Soviets, Islamic fundamentalists were nurtured and protected. And that made sense at the time. It did. And ignorance about the lose cannon that Islamism represents was excusable...Algeria was considered a "special case" and mostly a socialist/nativist movement. (Error)
The Iranian Revolution was seen as a hiccup, another one-off and was just a Shiite reactionary movement with a short shelf life...the people would get fed up. (Error)
Pakistan's move to foster a reverence for the Mogul Empire/Sunni-Jihadist identity/Warrior state was considered a good thing to push back against India, a satellite ally of the USSR. (Error)
And Afghanistan was seen as important proxy fight of God Fearing Mujaheddin vs Godless Communism. (Error).
Finally, Turkey was historically seen as the lynch-pin defense of NATO to block Soviet force aggressive moves toward the ME oil fields. Islamists, however, were hunted down and imprisoned and killed by Ataturk-minded Turkish military forces through out the Reagan era...and the Western powers were continuously trying to "reform" Turkey from a military coup state to a democratic state that was friendly to Islamists...'cause WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND ISLAM.
Seemingly clever people STILL DON"T UNDERSTAND ISLAM and that it is INCOMPATIBLE with secularism and democracy. That includes US Spy agencies and military top brass. IGNORANCE ABOUNDS.
That is what you are seeing, not a thoughtful plan to supplant secular rule with Islamists. BUSH Jr. did not understand when he invaded Iraq. Reagan did not understand when he caused the fall of the secular Afghan Soviet puppet Government.
So please, you have to realize that ignorance and foolish good intentions are not the same as a Machiavellian plan to help Islam become resurgent.
Thankfully, this ignorance is fast evaporating. Read the Seymour Hersh Military to Military article to see that some people do now get it. And these people need our support.
[–] Caboose_Calloway ago
Not a Machiavellian plan?
Not a Machiavellian plan?
I can't take this much apologism.
[–] novictim ago
You did not understand the Meta message of my comment.
Yes, people like Dick Cheney and Danial Perle, and Paul Wolfowitz and all the rest of 'em neocons thought they had clever ideas and could reshape the world to their vision. Yet their "operating system" was based on cold war logic. So when 911 happened (no, it was not an "inside job") these "smart guys" (clever but ignorant of Islam) took control of the situation and directed the invasion of Iraq. And then they got Obama to topple Qaddafi.
These people really thought that they could then have a Sunni democracy movement take power and fight off the Jihadists with their aid. And the USA would play backstop to any slide in power of these more pliant politicians. Hey, "democracies are more peaceful" was and is a accepted truism even today.
(See, we are not totally in disagreement. There is some conspiracy, you just give it too much credit. I just reject the notion that these people have superhuman insights and predictive abilities and that what we see TODAY are what they wanted /expected).
Where we diverge is that you think this "Project" is everything/the most important thing and I see FOURTEEN HUNDRED YEARS of Islam's consistent and cohesive war on the world as being far more significant and representing the most important reality today. In a world where the only ideological split is really between Secular Humanism vs Nationalism against Islamism/Islamofascism, I think my take is more valid than your take. Yes, Oligarchs and Capitalist interests are also in the mix but these are just narrow interests and have no consistent effect. The bigger "clash of civilizations" reality is what actually drives the events we are seeing.