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[–] Devel ago 

Only applies if you're rich:

Expatriation on or after June 17, 2008 If you expatriated on or after June 17, 2008, the new IRC 877A expatriation rules apply to you if any of the following statements apply.

Your average annual net income tax for the 5 years ending before the date of expatriation or termination of residency is more than a specified amount that is adjusted for inflation ($147,000 for 2011, $151,000 for 2012, $155,000 for 2013 and $157,000 for 2014).

Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation or termination of residency.

You fail to certify on Form 8854 that you have complied with all U.S. federal tax obligations for the 5 years preceding the date of your expatriation or termination of residency.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Expatriation-Tax

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] ago 

You still pay $2200 whether or not you are subject to the exit tax.

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[–] WildThingSammiT 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

How about youuuuuu go fuck yourself, and I leave anyway.

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[–] ScreaminMime 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Seems there is a wall being built, not to keep people out but to keep the slaves on the plantation.

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[–] The_Wanderer 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I've been telling people this shit for years; get out as soon as possible.

Leave while you still can.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I did :)

Hopefully relinquishing citizenship won't be a treasonous offense and I don't get deported back to the US.

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[–] KoKansei 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

Just your daily reminder that if you live in the US or hold a US passport and pay taxes, you are a slave. The US government considers you their rightful property.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] ago  (edited ago)

All you have to do is just gain residence in the US for a few years for worldwide taxation to start applying to you. Not even citizenship is needed for the fuckery to begin.

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[–] Rottcodd 1 point 7 points (+8|-1) ago 

Integrity and honor would demand that the US government, if it is to consider itself a worthy one, and if it finds that people are renouncing their citizenship, would seek to correct the failures that led to a growth in renunciation rather than to punish those who might choose that course.

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[–] The_Wanderer ago 

hysterical laughter ensues

Oh...Wait. You were serious, weren't you?

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that one. They are entirely too delusional and corpulent to ever be so rational.

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[–] Rottcodd ago 

Of course I was serious.

The government would have us believe that it acts with integrity and honor.

Even a child could figure out that if the government has a problem with people choosing to renounce their citizenship, then that means that citizenship isn't all it's cracked up to be, which means that the government should figure out some way to make it more attractive.

Yet that's not what they do. They don't do a thing that even a child could figure out would be the best thing to do.

Yet the government still exists, and that much more surprisingly, still has people who support it. I guarantee that there are people - citizens - who even support this program.

It can only be that there are all too many people who don't figure out very simple truths - truths that even children could figure out.

So they need to be pointed out. Even though they're truths that even children could figure out.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Specific doctrines, like those involving the right to change citizenship and the right to have a citizenship in the first place, as well as other points on the UDHR, came right out of WWII because some of those practies were happening in places like Nazi Germany.

The US will soon be like Nazi Germany.

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[–] Doomking_Grimlock 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Fairly common prediction. Personally, I hope the human race nukes itself into Fallout 4 before we go Full Nazi.

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[–] Rottcodd 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I'm not sure that Nazi Germany is a good comparison though, simply because there was a streak of fascism that ran through Nazi Germany that I don't think can take hold in the US any more. At this point, I don't even think the government could convince the uber-patriots to put on jackboots and align themselves against their fellow citizens, since even (and arguably especially) uber-patriots hate politicians generally. Nazi Germany depended on a considerable number of people who could be convinced that following the dictates of the politicians was identical to acting for the good of the nation and the good of the people (and the politicians there had an advantage insofar as Germany really had been systematically crippled in the aftermath of WWI, so it was fertile ground for making a pitch for the good of the nation and the good of the people). I just don't think that concept could be sold widely enough in the US today to overcome the certain opposition. The divisions within the population are too many and too deep (and, somewhat ironically in this context, largely a direct result of the efforts of politicians and their cronies) and I just don't think there's a single group that could be won to the side of the government and provide sufficient support to overwhelm everyone else.

I predict it'll be more like the USSR, with the privileged few remaining in power in spite of widespread opposition simply by dint of overwhelming force of arms and an omnipresent and unconstrained police state. Or more accurately, I believe that that's the path that they'll continue to try to take. I don't think it will succeed for long, if at all.

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[–] RojoDiablo 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Just make it a sad parting webpage survey like social networking sites.


We see that you are trying to renounce your U.S. Citizenship.

We're sorry to see you go. :(


Is there anything we can do or do better as a nation to make you change your mind?

  • Yes
  • Maybe
  • No
  • No, fuck off and die in a fire, Unkie Sam.

If you answered "Yes" or "Maybe" please explain in the box below.

If you answered "No" or "No, fuck off and die in a fire, Unkie Sam" please allow up to two weeks for the delivery of your drone strike.

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[–] Vvswiftvv17 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Have an upvoat. That was damn funny and you put a lot of effort into it.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] 0 points 26 points (+26|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Background:

The United States, along with only Eritrea, taxes its citizens' income wherever they are in the world. One of those is a military dictatorship, but I'll leave it up to you to figure out which one it is.

Many US citizens have ended up dropping their citizenship (in favor of living elsewhere in the world) to avoid the hassle of filing taxes and other very revealing documents, as well as for other hardships caused by the US' taxation policy. I've detailed a list of hardships in this post.

The fact that only two other countries in the world do this, with other countries finally abolishing policies that taxed worldwide income, should say a lot about the US' progress in law and rights.

Finally, I shall describe how citizenship can be relinquished and what it implies.

Relinquishing citizenship is the process by which a person discards his citizenship. There are 6 forms of relinquishing US citizenship:

  • Naturalization in a Foreign State

  • Oath of Allegiance

  • Join Foreign Armed Services

  • Work for a Foreign Government as a Foreign National

  • Work for a Foreign Government With an Oath of Allegiance

  • Renunciation

Renunciation is a special form of relinquishment in which a person sets up an appointment in a US embassy or consulate and basically declares that he is no longer a citizen. The renunciation process, for some time, has cost $400 but, as of 2013, started to cost over $2000. Previously, the other 5 forms of relinquishment were free. As of last week, hence why this article was published, the US State Department has brought its relinquishment-without-renunciation fees up to parity with renunciation fees.

Relinquishing US citizenship can only be done under certain conditions:

To leave America, you generally must prove 5 years of U.S. tax compliance. If you have a net worth greater than $2 million or average annual net income tax for the 5 previous years of $160,000 or more (that’s tax, not income), you pay an exit tax. It is a capital gain tax as if you sold your property when you left. At least there’s an exemption of $680,000. Long-term residents giving up a Green Card can be required to pay the tax too.

Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Implicitly, no person shall be prevented from renouncing citizenship, provided that s/he has another citizenship. Oddly enough, the US is not a signatory to either of the two UN conventions on stateless persons, so the US actually allows you to renounce your citizenship and become stateless.

Basically, America owns you if you're a US citizen. As you may have heard, anyone born in the United States or born to one US citizen parent is automatically a citizen, which means that all these rules apply to them. The mayor of London, Boris Johnson, a US citizen born in New York City while his British parents were staying there, sold a house and suddenly owed hundreds of thousands of pounds (dollars) to the IRS. Basically, US citizenship is the worst citizenshipt to have.

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[–] barrinmw 7 points -2 points (+5|-7) ago 

To be fair, if you want to continue receiving the benefits that come with being an American citizen, you should pay US taxes.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] ago  (edited ago)

To be fair, if you want to continue receiving the benefits that come with being an American Eritrean citizen, you should pay US Eritrea taxes.

Imagine an Eritrean person who escaped Eritrea and won't pay his Eritrean taxes. Replace "America" or "US" with the appropriate words for any other country and it's easy to see how silly it is that a person owes a country something just for being born there but living outside.

There are 190+ countries that don't practice taxation of all their citizens across the world, and there are 2 that actually do. One of those two is a military dictatorship that threatens family members and friends when a person who left the country does not pay his or her taxes. Think about what those statistics demonstrate about the US.

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[–] RojoDiablo 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

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[–] CatNamedJava 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

What benefits do you recieve when you live in a different country?

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[–] ScreaminMime 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

What "benefits" would that be?

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[–] CatNamedJava 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

This is the same reason why company have off shore profits thst they get blame for not paying taxes on. Same thing. They make the profit abroad pay whatever tax the local government femands rhan get a tax bill from the US.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] ago  (edited ago)

Taxation of persons and incoporated entities can be quite different. I don't know too much about business taxation so I would like someone else to fill me in.

What's ridiculous is that US citizens abroad are taxed out the ass while domestic entities doing business in the United States can shuffle things abroad and then end up paying nothing to the USG.

Personally I believe that the USG should not be meddling in the affairs of any money handled abroad.

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[–] DickHertz ago 

The tax thing is at least consistent. If you have unrealized capital gains then it's the last chance for the government to collect taxes on them so you're just squaring up before you leave. Despite your assertion that it's the worse citizenship to have there is no shortage of people waiting to get in. Perhaps it is the worse citizenship to have if you are very wealthy and are sick of paying taxes?

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] ago 

If you have unrealized capital gains then it's the last chance for the government to collect taxes on them so you're just squaring up before you leave

The US should just allow you to keep assets inside the country. It's very complex to think of something that works, but it's much more sane than bullying foreign instutions and Americans abroad. Clearly every other country in the world has figured it out, so the US should be able to, too.

Despite your assertion that it's the worse citizenship to have there is no shortage of people waiting to get in.

Those people are at least making a concious choice about gaining US citizenship, though perhaps they may not fully understand the consequences. Persons born in the US or persons born to a US national father or mother did not choose to become US citizens and end up with "tax" burdens wherever in the world they choose to live.

To be fair, I believe that those born outside of the US to a US national have the choice to relinquish citizenship consequence-free before age 18 and a half. I have a feeling that many won't realize what they're getting into unless it's too late.

It is the worst citizenship to have if you wanted to live anywhere in the world, except of course in the country of citizenship itself.

Perhaps it is the worse citizenship to have if you are very wealthy and are sick of paying taxes?

It's not a matter of being "sick of paying taxes". There is a slowly growing income exclusion (it's almost up to $100,000/year) which is income that the IRS won't even look at. The tax burden by the foreign country for anything above income exclusion level can be further excluded as tax credits, so that, at the worst, your tax burden to the US is null because the foreign country taxed you more than the US would have.

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[–] Primax 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

How do they enforce their overseas tax policy? Seems pretty easy to just ignore.

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[–] HoneyNutStallmans [S] ago 

Like someone else said: FATCA. Get the banks to become the watchers of any US citizen's account or any account that has a US citizen as a signing authority, which includes joint bank accounts, for the USG. If they don't comply, then hinder their business in the US.

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[–] WillyWillyBumBum 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Clearly you've never heard of FATCA. Basically the US government got many countries to sign an agreement that requires all financial organizations in the country to pay special attention to US citizens and snitch on them (or pay fines otherwise). There was some minor outcry after the fact because it forces foreign banks to spend extra resources to keep the system running. Guess who they pass the costs on to in most cases.

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[–] CryHavoc 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago  (edited ago)

When a U.S. expat opens a bank account overseas (or with any financial institution), the bank or institution has to file paperwork with the IRS.

So I guess as long as you keep all of your earnings in a mattress and don't invest them I guess you could evade the taxes but that probably isn't a great option.

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[–] The_Wanderer 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

That's what I'm wondering; if I'm in another country already (and have no remaining US or US-based assets) why the fuck would I pay them another red cent? Sooner give them ThePirateBay treatment (mail package containing police riot baton, write detailed and explicit note about where said agency may cram it).