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[–] SaneGoatiSwear ago  (edited ago)

[–] [deleted] ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] SaneGoatiSwear ago  (edited ago)

is this in reply to me? um? huh? like extoll on your point please so i can better understand what you are saying

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[–] Lodley 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

Blind supposition and repeated dis-proven rumors as facts. No corporations are not given access to the treaty. It's not unusual that it's taking place behind closed doors. The three "bad" ISDS cases they point out are not even concluded, they literally have no examples of a bad outcome. If you think I'm wrong point me to one unfair ISDS ruling, please I would love to see it.

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[–] SaneGoatiSwear 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] Lodley 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

first of all, the isds is bad overall simply because it is part of the very very beginnings of an international political government over nations' own laws. or am i wrong on that? it's pretty confusing language, but it seems to be that these specific provisions that make up the isds really just create a framework for a corporation to act in line as a governing body akin to a nation's government.

The ISDS does not give anyone power over a nation's laws. Corporations are not able to act "akin to a nation's government"

when they decide things on OUR behalf as OUR government, they better damn well ask my permission

First nothing has been decided, that will only happen when the treaty goes to congress. Second, have you read a single thing congress has done this year? There is a thousand page defense authorization bill in congress right now, did you read that? If you, but especially all these journalists complaining about the TPP, won't look at the things congress does in the light of day; why would you need to see the things the trade rep is doing in private? Because again, it has to go through congress before it takes effect.

i don't need to point to unfair rulings

No you do. If your saying 'X' is terrible but 'X' is already here and you can't point to an example of 'X' being terrible; then your no different than people saying: "gays will destroy America".

i am saying the mechanism itself is the consequence of a system that has been coup'ed by a small cabal of wealthy sociopaths, and thus will ALWAYS be only good for them, almost never good for us.

Then live in a cabin in the woods if you think everything must be against you. Here in the rest of civilization I'll actually look at something before I declare it evil.

LOL NO CORPORATIONS???? ahahahahaahahahaahahahahaahahahaahahaahahahahahaahahahahah

It's about to get real funny in a minute

know about the secret playbook U.S. trade officials are using

From you source. So instead of getting access to the treaty as you suggested, your link clearly states that they only were able to give input to the trade officials not read the drafts themselves. Shocker, the government asks companies what they want in a trade agreement before negotiating one.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

[Deleted]

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[–] CatNamedJava 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

no it is eight milliseconds. eight milliseconds before I quit the video.

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[–] vinylrhino 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Can I get an ELI5 why this is bad?

It seems bad, but as a US citizen who can already be sued by anyone for any reason I'm not sure how this makes it worse for me. Does this mean those with power can go sue, or go after, more people/countries like they already can here? So basically the rest of the world ends up in the same boat as the average US citizen?

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[–] SaneGoatiSwear 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago  (edited ago)

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[–] Lodley 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

Can I get an ELI5 why this is bad?

It's not, anti-trade groups don't want further economic integration so they are making mountains out of mole hills.

So basically the rest of the world ends up in the same boat as the average US citizen?

Not exactly, the ISDS are outside of a country's judicial system and not available to domestic groups for domestic issues. However there are two very important things you need to keep in mind. First by outside the judicial system they are also outside of the legal enforcement mechanisms; countries in the past have just ignored ISDS decisions that they don't like without consequence. Second the right to sue is not the right to win, as an American you are probably aware that people have lawsuits thrown out all the time; god has been sued on several occasions and never lost (it's hard to prove you notified god of the lawsuit).

Also keep in mind that ISDS are present in many trade deal today, and they haven't lead to this kind of nightmare scenario the video is suggesting.

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[–] benis ago 

If the ISDS are really that innocent, why can't the deal be made public?

Why did Elizabeth Warren comment that "If the American people were to see the TPP, they would be opposed to it"?