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[–] blackblarneystone 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago  (edited ago)

i have an idea. lets ban anyone that ever mentions this gay-ass bullshit ever again

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[–] Disgruntled 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that she was given a sub which benefited from being a default. Not having any default subs could prevent a lot of these issues.

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[–] frankenmine [S] 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

SJWs love infiltrating institutions with large spheres of influence.

On sites like reddit and Voat, this means default and large subs.

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[–] Disgruntled 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Which is why we should not have default subs. Let the subs grow on the merit of their content. If there was a way to remove all users from askvoat and have them start fresh I'd be all for that as well and wouldn't care if she had the sub any more.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Not having any default subs could prevent a lot of these issues.

This all the way. Even as things stand, default status only means a place on the top bar, they removed the reddit style auto subscriptions a while ago.

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[–] Atko 3 points 65 points (+68|-3) ago 

I expect moderators to (voluntarily) do the following:

  • grow and nurture their subs
  • engage with users and use their sub as regular users
  • remove spam and illegal content

Moderators who do the above would be awesome people to have around here and that would help us all a lot but nobody can keep doing that for free for any reasonable amount of time. As long as we have humans doing these things, there will always be room for trouble and we would have to play whack-a-mole.

What you're asking for would create the need for us to continue getting involved every time a moderator decides to do something Voat users don't approve of. While our involvement would make sure Voat is what we want it to be, the hard truth is that we don't have time for that kind of involvement. We're not working full time for Voat (in fact, there are times where weeks go by where we don't have time to do anything for Voat because we have a life and daytime jobs), we're not getting paid and I really wish you guys could chime in with ideas on how to keep Voat alive because time is running out and money is not going to last forever.

Anyways, we are thinking about ways we can fix moderation problems (social problem) once and for all (for example, have the community moderate Voat by taking "delete" feature away form moderators and giving it to the users) but this will take some time (6 months? a year?) to develop and experiment with before launching it site-wide. In the meantime, the clock is ticking...

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[–] Stalgondo 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Centralized power structures of all kinds are fundamentally flawed by their very nature, in that sociopaths crave power and concentrations of power always attract sociopaths like moths to flame.

Typically, those who form and watch power structures early on are able to detect and combat attempts to seize it for malicious intent. However, as time passes, vigilance wains and sociopaths adapt to the system to find a way to game it for their benefit. Sociopaths are naturally more driven to gain power than benevolent people, and they are willing to resort to more cut throat tactics with greater risks.

The first thing that sociopaths do is ensure that they can operate with impunity within the power structure, usually through nepotism. After that they will carry out the transformation of the power structure in such a way that it can reshape things to suit them more. These changes gradually erode faith in the system, which in turn causes the sociopaths to respond with direct and brutal methods of control. This leads to further erosion in faith until the foundation crumbles and the entire thing falls apart.

Michael Huemer's book "The Problem of Political Authority" details this process very well, and I highly encourage everyone interested in this process to read it. The problem we are dealing with is as old as the first laws. I don't think there is a great way to solve it - the only way that seems to work in the long term is to eliminate power structures and rely on spontaneous order.

If I were to suggest a method for dealing with the problem caused by sociopaths and nepotism, it would be to eliminate mods almost altogether. If there is any mod at all, it should be a spam removal bot.

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[–] HomerSimpson 3 points -3 points (+0|-3) ago 

Let's just kill Voat now then how about it? Make it worse than reddit from the get-go.

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[–] go1dfish 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Anyways, we are thinking about ways we can fix moderation problems (social problem) once and for all (for example, have the community moderate Voat by taking "delete" feature away form moderators and giving it to the users) but this will take some time (6 months? a year?) to develop and experiment with before launching it site-wide.

That sounds damn exciting. I like where your head is at on this.

You should write a "declaration of Voat" some time describing what you see as the core principles of Voat and what its purpose is going forward.

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[–] ElementalPee 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Hey now that you're a company do you have a physical mailbox address that we could send checks or money orders to?

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[–] samwisekoi 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

/u/Atko - is there an address where we could send actual donation checks? Skip PayPal and BTC altogether; a check in USD or Euros would be easy to do.

Help us by getting a post office box where we could send you money!

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[–] RedditCEOEllenPao 6 points 13 points (+19|-6) ago 

I am so sick and tired of this drama shit cluttering up my front page. It's not bad enough every thread in /v/AskVoat is "DAE /u/she is literally Hitler?", now it's seeping into every other fucking default subvoat.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Enough-GIFS.gif

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[–] Broc_Lia 3 points 1 point (+4|-3) ago 

It's getting pretty stupid. Plus, I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of the people complaining have already migrated to /v/askgoat anyhow, even while complaining that migrations don't work.

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[–] frankenmine [S] 8 points 1 point (+9|-8) ago 

The rest of us don't take any more pleasure from dealing with this than you do.

However, it must be done. SJWs cannot be allowed to destroy Voat like they destroyed reddit.

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[–] blackblarneystone 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

u r gay

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[–] Sosacms 3 points 12 points (+15|-3) ago 

You do realize you are using the exact same tactics as the SJW crowd. I don't hate SJWs for their views, it's their tactics. So go endlessly fight it out some place else.

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[–] zoetry 5 points 6 points (+11|-5) ago 

At -274 [She] is unable to perform her duties as a mod

That's not true.There's no rule that even suggests that a moderator must comment. Personally, I've always hated that moderators feel compelled to comment to leave a reason for deleting a submission. It gives them an inappropriate opportunity for positive karma. Removing or stifling conversations does not, by any means, contribute to the conversation.

At any rate, there's nothing stopping her from having another mod leave a deletion notice, or, as far as I'm aware, PMing a user with a reason for deletion.

If they implemented deletion reasons as they should, she'd have even less 'need' to comment.

and she will never climb above -50 ever again

Says you. Maybe some other people agree. It is, at best, a guess. Amalek's gotten himself out of some ridiculous holes before.

She fell below -50 hours after the transfer was granted. The transfer should have been annulled at that time, anyway. Transfer rules explicitly forbid transferring moderatorship to such a universally-hated user.

The rules are not retroactive. Where'd you get that idea?

She met both the original and updated rules at time of request, and at time of transfer. That's all that currently matters for /v/subverserequest.

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[–] frankenmine [S] 8 points -2 points (+6|-8) ago  (edited ago)

This isn't about posting or commenting (though those are also factors). Falling below -50 shuts off certain mod tools, as well. That's the biggest factor.

That's why being above -50 is specifically a condition of a head mod transfer.

She's fallen afoul of that condition mere hours after the transfer, so the transfer should be annulled, and she should preferably be demodded completely.

The community simply doesn't want her.

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[–] zoetry 5 points 2 points (+7|-5) ago 

She's fallen afoul of that condition mere hours after the transfer, so the transfer should be annulled, and she should preferably be demodded completely.

So you should be asking for a rule change, not an unfounded demodding.

The community simply doesn't want her.

Some people certainly don't. She's only fallen, what ~3,000 points? And you think that's enough, given that there are tons of sock puppets and people that will have gone way back in She's history downvoting things that had no place being downvoted, to represent a community with almost 47,000 people in it? Really?

If only the 11 people that upvoted this post went in with 2-3 alt accounts, they could easily have caused as large of a shift as has happened recently.

Where's your evidence that a significant proportion of the community doesn't want her? I've certainly seen some hate here and there, and she's certainly been brigaded by maybe a couple dozen people, but it seems to be a tiny majority of the community that A.) cares enough, and B.) Is on your side.

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[–] k0s 3 points 6 points (+9|-3) ago  (edited ago)

You know you're probably a bad mod if I know you exist. Mods should just be in the background removing spam, and depending on the subverse removing unrelated content, doxxing, and NSFW content without NSFW tag.

/u/she has stepped over moderator bounds and put her own ideology into a neutral default subverse. this shouldnt be allowed.

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[–] Broc_Lia 9 points 7 points (+16|-9) ago 

No. Mods should not be removed because their comment history is being brigaded. If you want to remove her power, just migrate to /v/askgoat. Problem solved.

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points (+5|-2) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Broc_Lia 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

While that all sounds fine and dandy on the surface, who gets to define abuse? If the site is subject to mob-rule and any sub which offends the hive mind gets bulldozed then there isn't going to be a whole lot of free speech around the place. Whether there ends up being an SJW clique in control or an anti-SJW clique makes no difference, the site will default to reddit standards.

Moving sub is not such a hardship that it must never be required to happen. /v/askgoat is running just fine.

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[–] frankenmine [S] 10 points 0 points (+10|-10) ago 

Her comment history is being brigaded because this is the only way the community has to oust an unfit, malicious mod.

If we had a more civilized way of doing it, such as submitting a vote of no confidence, we would have done just that.

This is our vote of no confidence. This person is unfit to be a mod of a neutral 50K sub. They subscribe to an ideology that goes against everything Voat stands for, the very reason it was founded.

She can fuck off and mod /v/ShitVoatersSay.

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[–] CptCmdrAwesome 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

If we had a more civilized way of doing it, such as submitting a vote of no confidence, we would have done just that.

Actually, we did. This was not the only one. For all the good any of them were worth.

The one I posted is currently two votes shy of 1,000 with an 88% approval rate, and does not even mention "SJW" or the personal views of any moderator, it only serves to register dissatisfaction with the moderation of that sub.

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[–] Deathchild95 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Voat is all about freedom. If @she wants to super-moderate v/askvoat then it is her right at mod of a sub. Some people might even like it super moderated. But It is our freedom, if we do not like as subverse, to make an subverse that fits the niche that you want to find. We have 10 different subverse that talk about the same thing, they just do it slightly different and have different user bases.just move to the one that fits you best and avoid the others.

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[–] Broc_Lia 5 points 6 points (+11|-5) ago  (edited ago)

"The community" can migrate if it wants to (and is in the process of doing so), and there's no guarantee that a brigade will represent "the community." (insofar as an amorphous grouping can be represented by anyone)

This is our vote of no confidence. This person is unfit to be a mod of a neutral 50K sub. They subscribe to an ideology that goes against everything Voat stands for, the very reason it was founded.

I personally do not want to belong to another site which bases moderator positions on political reliability.