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[–] o_V_o ago 

Either way, the jury is largely IN on the medical data

It's actually not. What you're doing is confining evolution to two absolutes and saying that humans must conform to one or the other, and if they don't something is "wrong". It's not, because there is no "wrong", that's not how evolution works. You should read the comment I left for KhuanZi (because I doubt they will).

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[–] MayTheDerpBeWithYou ago 

It's actually not.>

Ok then, the ball is in your court. Show me multiple peer review data sets that support your position. Debate me on the science. If you won't debate the science that supports the trans condition as valid and not fetish gone too far, then I don't see the point in furthering a debate based on your philosophical feelings and hunches, but I will answer your request to show I'm not folding my arms in a huff.

I read your comment as you asked and I largely agree with you that we aren't "supposed" to be anything. We are, what we are. Where we differ is how choose to define man and woman. You're definition and beliefs work out, but only in the coffee shop sense: only if you ignore the growing body of data sets and studies. What's the harm in a man taking hormones, modifying the body so it matches the brain as it expected to be(before and after the hormones,) when medical professionals deem that relationship to be askew, and once hormone therapy is in place and surgery is over, how is that person not a woman to you? If we're not intended to be anything, then we aren't intended to be a man or a woman, however, you are standing firm that in the myriad of possibility and make-ups that result when a human is created, that the penis and vagina are unchangeable constants. It would seem that you are the one adhering to dichotomies, not I.

Regarding your Anti-Trans comment, Mike Huckabee is Anti-Trans, for a solid example. He doesn't support anything to do with trans issues and activly fights against those issues. That's Anti-Trans. To say people aren't Anti-Trans is waffling around to further the process of uselessly debating and a waste of bandwidth.

Also, what you are failing to discuss or rebut is the brain / body relationship I spoke of so your comment is not relevant to my rebuttal. Through personal accounts, I can tell you every trans person I have met, would chose taking a pill or surgery to change the brain vs. the body due to the social rejection and strife they must endure to transition. Not one of them says, "I can't wait to enjoy confusing the hell out of everyone I know, probably lose my job and career, not be able to go to the bathroom in public, and join a statistical group that means I have a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered! Whoo hoo!!" It's transition, or put a gun in their mouth, and the stats support that statement. However in today's medical capabilities, that isn't possible, so, fix the body it is, and I'll tell you I have seen first hand that their brains aren't functioning properly until they fix the body with hormone therepy and sometimes surgery.

You make a comparison to your own enjoyment of drag and effeminate mannerisms. Due to these experiences, It seems that you think to have license and authority with which to speak to trans matters, you don't due to those experiences. They don' relate they way you have assumed them to. They just happen to share clothing and mannerisms in relation, however usually drag is most often a caricature and trans dress and behaviour is to be what their brain knows it is and to "pass," and be left alone in that regard. If you spend some time researching and vetting your positions against the many data sets and research available, created by doctors, not politicians or philosophers, as I'm kindly and deeply imploring that you do, you will find that out, very, fast.

I look forward to discussing this further, but please, rebut my study and stance. Trans physical issues are medical ones, not fetish or entertainment based gender bending so continuing a discussion as if they are is, well, pointless and puts me on a footing of debating in that camp and every answer will be like this one. It's not a choice, it's a fact. These people just want to get on with their lives, not pursue a fetish and deserve to be regarded as a man or woman as they request to be. Again, if we're not supposed to be anything, as you put it, then why are you insisting that in this case, you deviate from that belief? So quiz me there and I'll happily speak with you till my tongue falls out..

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[–] MayTheDerpBeWithYou ago 

It's actually not.>

Ok then, the ball is in your court. Show me multiple peer review data sets that support your position. Debate me on the science. If you won't debate the science that supports the trans condition as valid and not fetish gone too far, then I don't see the point in furthering a debate based on your philosophical feelings and hunches, but I will answer your request to show I'm not folding my arms in a huff.

I read your comment as you asked and I largely agree with you that we aren't "supposed" to be anything. We are, what we are. Where we differ is how choose to define man and woman. You're definition and beliefs work out, but only in the coffee shop sense: only if you ignore the growing body of data sets and studies. What's the harm in a man taking hormones, modifying the body so it matches the brain as it expected to be(before and after the hormones,) when medical professionals deem that relationship to be askew, and once hormone therapy is in place and surgery is over, how is that person not a woman to you? If we're not intended to be anything, then we aren't intended to be a man or a woman, however, you are standing firm that in the myriad of possibility and make-ups that result when a human is created, that the penis and vagina are unchangeable constants. It would seem that you are the one adhering to dichotomies, not I.

Regarding your Anti-Trans comment, Mike Huckabee is Anti-Trans, for a solid example. He doesn't support anything to do with trans issues and activly fights against those issues. That's Anti-Trans. To say people aren't Anti-Trans is waffling around to further the process of uselessly debating and a waste of bandwidth.

Also, what you are failing to discuss or rebut is the brain / body relationship I spoke of so your comment is not relevant to my rebuttal. Through personal accounts, I can tell you every trans person I have met, would chose taking a pill or surgery to change the brain vs. the body due to the social rejection and strife they must endure to transition. Not one of them says, "I can't wait to enjoy confusing the hell out of everyone I know, probably lose my job and career, not be able to go to the bathroom in public, and join a statistical group that means I have a 1 in 12 chance of being murdered! Whoo hoo!!" It's transition, or put a gun in their mouth, and the stats support that statement. However in today's medical capabilities, that isn't possible, so, fix the body it is, and I'll tell you I have seen first hand that their brains aren't functioning properly until they fix the body with hormone therepy and sometimes surgery.

You make a comparison to your own enjoyment of drag and effeminate mannerisms. Due to these experiences, It seems that you think to have license and authority with which to speak to trans matters, you don't due to those experiences. They don' relate they way you have assumed them to. They just happen to share clothing and mannerisms in relation, however usually drag is most often a caricature and trans dress and behaviour is to be what their brain knows it is and to "pass," and be left alone in that regard. If you spend some time researching and vetting your positions against the many data sets and research available, created by doctors, not politicians or philosophers, as I'm kindly and deeply imploring that you do, you will find that out, very, fast.

I look forward to discussing this further, but please, rebut my study and stance. Trans physical issues are medical ones, not fetish or entertainment based gender bending so continuing a discussion as if they are is, well, pointless and puts me on a footing of debating in that camp and every answer will be like this one. It's not a choice, it's a fact. These people just want to get on with their lives, not pursue a fetish and deserve to be regarded as a man or woman as they request to be. Again, if we're not supposed to be anything, as you put it, then why are you insisting that in this case, you deviate from that belief? So quiz me there and I'll happily speak with you till my tongue falls out..

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[–] KhuanZi 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

No, society gives two absolutes. The medical data doesn't give absolutes. Gender and Sex are both real and people identify as both sides of the dichotomy, but also as other things. Just because other things exist doesn't mean that male and female don't exist.

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[–] o_V_o ago 

Gender and Sex are both real and people identify as both sides of the dichotomy, but also as other things.

Uh.. no.. there are only shades of gray in between (and it's totally up to your endocrine system). You aren't special. You aren't something else-kin. Knock it the fuck off.