[–] Leveraction ago
Basic rule of thumb,....if the dumbshits at msm make a statement, you know the complete OPPOSITE is true.
[–] Helena73 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I cant tell if you’re joking or not but the answer is yes. Quinine tonic water averages about 60 or 70 mg quinine per liter, so 6 or so liters would amount to a very low dose equivalent to about half the same quantity of hcq. The gin would not help you and would probably work against you.
[–] totallynotFBI 1 point 0 points 1 point (+1|-1) ago
stunning news
Bullshit. If you had stunning news, it would be the title.
[–] mcdowell_ag 6 points -1 points 5 points (+5|-6) ago
Studies showing no good result from HCQ (outside China) include https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200515174441.htm https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.10.20060699v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20082180v1
It looks like Trump does not have a supernatural ability to predict the results of scientific research before the studies have been completed. Curiously enough, the stereotypical prejudiced redneck that the media like to pretend Trump is would have said on day one "This is a study coming out of China pushing a drug commonly used and manufactured in China. They are lying through their teeth." and been right.
FWIW I tend to trust mathematical papers because they show their working. A study at https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20047886v1 suggests that antivirals will have only limited effects unless you start treatment very early, which amounts to the sort of prophylactic treatment that Trump is undergoing. This also matches experience with attempts to treat influenza with antivirals.
[–] Count_Monte_Cristo 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago (edited ago)
None of those so-called "studies" involved ZInc which is the critical component of the treatment. The zinc stops virus replication in cells and the HCQ gets the zinc into the cells. Those "studies" were designed to fail and to trick suckers like you.
[–] Aidan20 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago
Stop using the widely used cure, goy: keep panicking, there's no way out, goy. You have blood on your hands.
Every stage of the infection has its preferred approach. HCQ has been proven effective in early cases and prophylaxis, alongside Azythromicyn and Zinc. Tocilizumab, Hyperimmune Plasma and others are used in later stages.
[–] Helena73 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
I tend to trust mathematical papers because they show their working.
Good, so do I. Which is why Ive taken the time to read a bunch of these HCQ studies. They all have the same flaws. They are engaging in statistical fuckery.
1.) Firstly none of them are randomized so in every instance the medicated group is the sickest over like 14 dimensions. They throw in a bit of propensity scoring and wave their hands at the fact that these comorbidities are not actually binary values that exist in a vacuum and you cannot reliably adjust for people with 3 or 4 or more preexisting conditiions. Propensity scoring should never be used in this way. These are the same people that insisted they could not make any recommendations about HCQ until there were multiple randomized doulble blind peer reviewed studies !
2.)
suggests that antivirals will have only limited effects unless you start treatment very early,
Now we’re getting somewhere. You are essentially right. So rather than build a model on 13 patients as your final citation does, why havent ANY of the other “anti-chloroquine” studies analyzed HCQ or other antiviral effectiveness using days from onset to intervention as a continuous variable? THEY HAVE THIS DATA. Just show it. I know why they won’t— it will tell us that when given HCQ or HCQ plus macrolide 3 or 4 days after symtom onset (outpatient!) they could have reduced the death toll by 10s of thousands, instead of waiting till these people had ARDS!
Did you read the “VA” study? They were literally including patients who got the intervention after they were vented, presumably some were included in the HCQ group who initated treatment on the day they died! Again they didnt show us that data. Show us onset to intervention. Show us intervention to outcome. You cant throw a couple pills at a dying person and call it binary!
Early treatment is key, before people have progressed to stage II or III. Antivirals can fight the virus, not the hyperinflamatory response. (Actually HCQ does both, working as an immuno-modulator, but the antiviral effect will be lost on late stage patients) We are talking about a risk group —old people with multiple risk factors — with death rates as high as 10 or 20 percent!
Oh but qt prologation
Preexisting arrhythmias only are observed in about 5% of the high risk population in question. You can admit those fuckkers for observation if you’re worried about them dropping dead. Additional “de novo” arrhythmias only occured in another 5% or so of the severe covid patients. This included both sustained and TRANSIENT arrhythmias for people getting 600mg per diem HCQ and already half dead. Doesnt the math tell you to give these folks 200-400mg at the start of symtoms to avoid a 10% or more death rate among the high risk folks? The whole justification for not giving this highly studied drug to patient in the first place to covid patients is overturned by their own data!
Theyve already been using HCQ and its analogs for a long time against viruses. The randomized studies established its effectiveness against SARS 15 years ago. They understand the biochemical mechanisms that the drug works on. Its not voodoo. HCQ and several other CHEAP existing drugs are working well against this disease and have been proven in vitro to kill the virus in lung cells at non-cytotoxic levels. It is purely political and financial interests that are gettting in the way of Americans getting life saving drugs in a timely manner. The bureacracy prevents them from getting treatment till they are half dead and then says “oh it doesnt work, look theyre all dying”
I dont trust the chinese. But at least they are showing me the treatment timeline data. The CDC, the WHO and their buddies in bureacratically controlled medical establishment keep proving themselves to be scientiffically dishonest. They funded the gain of function research that probably lead to this entire fiasco! They helped China establish the BL4 lab in Wuhan. They told us to hug chinese people and not be racist. They failed to recommend travel bans at the critical moment and now they wag their fingers at some couple walking their dog on a beach. Totally unreliable.
That Abu Dhabi study you cited is a turd with like 10 people in the control group. The latest lancet study is also a turd. These studies keep....
3.) Mixing populations of patient receiving other antiviral therapies into the control group!!!! The VA study did this too! You cant do that.
I could go on. TLDR I used to work for the government providing statistical justifications for their already predetermined decision making. Data dredging. P-hacking. Fuckery. I know the tricks. You only have to read the studies and see which data they arent showing you.
This goes for you too @ardvarcus
[–] ardvarcus 5 points 3 points 8 points (+8|-5) ago
A study in China. The Chinese cannot be trusted to do honest science.