I'm a lifelong liberal and this is precisely why I've more or less abandoned my own movement and hang out in spaces like Voat now. I disagree with a huge amount of what folks on Voat advocate policy-wise, but as a liberal the most important values to me are democratic freedom and free speech. You know what? It's refreshing to be in a space full of views I don't agree with and which have free reign to express themselves however they choose to do so. It's a serious breath of fresh air when compared with the curated, censored fucking echo chambers most of the mainstream internet has been turned into by these "liberals" in name only. The liberalism of the 2010s is not the liberalism I ever signed up to fight for when I first aligned myself with liberalism - ironically, because back in the 90s and 00s, it was conservatives who wanted to censor everything on family values grounds, and liberals who advocated for cultural libertarianism.
The best part is when my fellow liberals accuse me of the classic "getting more right wing as you get older" garbage. No, that's not what's happened to me you dumb fucks, I still believe the same principles as I did ten years ago and you fuckers have moved the Overton Window to such an extent that I'm apparently now a reactionary alt right shitlord or some such. Fair enough so - I find more acceptance of my views among the alt-right now than among my own "side" purely because although we disagree about virtually everything else, free speech and democratic freedom is one thing none of us here are willing to compromise on.
It's this exact shit which cost the left elections in both Trump and Brexit, as far as I'm concerned. You don't win an election by insulting, berating, condescending and trying to silence your opposition, you win an election by being fucking friendly about it. The folks here and in other conservative spaces have been far more friendly towards the opposition than the folks on the left have been, at least in my view. Nobody ever told a questioning Clinton voter or undecided voter to go fuck themselves on /r/The_Donald for example, people were always very helpful and friendly to anyone who came asking legitimate questions. Clinton supporters, on the other hand, played the whole "IF YOU'RE NOT AUTOMATICALLY ONE OF US WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT YOU MUST BE A RACIST SCUMBAG!!1!!1!!!!!!111!!" bullshit - no, sorry, that's not how democracy works. Fuck off.
Apologies for ranting, I just get super pissed when I'm reminded that liberalism used to be for free speech and those of us who refused to change to the authoritarian side are now considered far right. What a bunch of fucking idiots.
I have experienced the exact same thing. I still consider myself a classical liberal, however the dems have moved so far left that they have completely abandoned traditional liberal views. It doesn't help that neocons are just dems on a 5 yr delay these days. I constantly hear how I've gotten more conservative as I've gotten older, yet none of my views have drastically changed. Politics has become a team sport and modern dems will root for their team no matter what policies are pushed. I've noticed a growing number of ppl like us, which is a significant portion of the growing, new conservative movement.
Same here. I used to be liberal. Then I realized the argument I was making was essentially "We need more government to fix all the problems caused by more government."
Thank God for Ron Paul for gently nudging me awake over the years.
[–]Trash_Panda[S]0 points
4 points
4 points
(+4|-0)
ago
(edited ago)
Sorry but the liberalism of today is the logical conclusion of the liberalism you advocated for yesterday, because you are advocating for, quite literally, no moral framework at all. Today's liberals are just carrying this torch of "radical freedom", which means that any type of moral standards at all are considered oppressive. Any rules are seen as oppressive. That includes not only morality but cops, borders, theft, drugs, everything. That's what "hate speech" ultimately is, someone trying to express their moral disposition to others.
You are seeing the blooming fruits from post-enlightenment revolutionary thought. So yes, you are a fascist, because you are part of the old transitional model that needs to be done away with. You are an amalgamation of the old world and the new, a stepping stone from A to B, and your services are no longer required. Thanks for playing
[–] [deleted] 1 point 5 points 6 points (+6|-1) ago
[–] hatrickpatrick 1 point 5 points 6 points (+6|-1) ago (edited ago)
I'm a lifelong liberal and this is precisely why I've more or less abandoned my own movement and hang out in spaces like Voat now. I disagree with a huge amount of what folks on Voat advocate policy-wise, but as a liberal the most important values to me are democratic freedom and free speech. You know what? It's refreshing to be in a space full of views I don't agree with and which have free reign to express themselves however they choose to do so. It's a serious breath of fresh air when compared with the curated, censored fucking echo chambers most of the mainstream internet has been turned into by these "liberals" in name only. The liberalism of the 2010s is not the liberalism I ever signed up to fight for when I first aligned myself with liberalism - ironically, because back in the 90s and 00s, it was conservatives who wanted to censor everything on family values grounds, and liberals who advocated for cultural libertarianism.
The best part is when my fellow liberals accuse me of the classic "getting more right wing as you get older" garbage. No, that's not what's happened to me you dumb fucks, I still believe the same principles as I did ten years ago and you fuckers have moved the Overton Window to such an extent that I'm apparently now a reactionary alt right shitlord or some such. Fair enough so - I find more acceptance of my views among the alt-right now than among my own "side" purely because although we disagree about virtually everything else, free speech and democratic freedom is one thing none of us here are willing to compromise on.
It's this exact shit which cost the left elections in both Trump and Brexit, as far as I'm concerned. You don't win an election by insulting, berating, condescending and trying to silence your opposition, you win an election by being fucking friendly about it. The folks here and in other conservative spaces have been far more friendly towards the opposition than the folks on the left have been, at least in my view. Nobody ever told a questioning Clinton voter or undecided voter to go fuck themselves on /r/The_Donald for example, people were always very helpful and friendly to anyone who came asking legitimate questions. Clinton supporters, on the other hand, played the whole "IF YOU'RE NOT AUTOMATICALLY ONE OF US WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT YOU MUST BE A RACIST SCUMBAG!!1!!1!!!!!!111!!" bullshit - no, sorry, that's not how democracy works. Fuck off.
Apologies for ranting, I just get super pissed when I'm reminded that liberalism used to be for free speech and those of us who refused to change to the authoritarian side are now considered far right. What a bunch of fucking idiots.
[–] Newaccount9 ago
I have experienced the exact same thing. I still consider myself a classical liberal, however the dems have moved so far left that they have completely abandoned traditional liberal views. It doesn't help that neocons are just dems on a 5 yr delay these days. I constantly hear how I've gotten more conservative as I've gotten older, yet none of my views have drastically changed. Politics has become a team sport and modern dems will root for their team no matter what policies are pushed. I've noticed a growing number of ppl like us, which is a significant portion of the growing, new conservative movement.
[–] Granite_Pill 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Same here. I used to be liberal. Then I realized the argument I was making was essentially "We need more government to fix all the problems caused by more government."
Thank God for Ron Paul for gently nudging me awake over the years.
[–] Trash_Panda [S] 0 points 4 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago (edited ago)
Sorry but the liberalism of today is the logical conclusion of the liberalism you advocated for yesterday, because you are advocating for, quite literally, no moral framework at all. Today's liberals are just carrying this torch of "radical freedom", which means that any type of moral standards at all are considered oppressive. Any rules are seen as oppressive. That includes not only morality but cops, borders, theft, drugs, everything. That's what "hate speech" ultimately is, someone trying to express their moral disposition to others.
You are seeing the blooming fruits from post-enlightenment revolutionary thought. So yes, you are a fascist, because you are part of the old transitional model that needs to be done away with. You are an amalgamation of the old world and the new, a stepping stone from A to B, and your services are no longer required. Thanks for playing
[–] Trash_Panda [S] 1 point 11 points 12 points (+12|-1) ago
Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.
Charles J. Chaput