[–] Fact_Checking_Alien 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I want to thank you for participating in the conversation so far, even when you perceive being misunderstood. I think I can see where the crux of our disagreement is, after reflecting upon it, and I think it is how we perceive the consequences. I perceive the consequences as resulting in less, not more, diversity - and specifically attempting to repress that beauty of the human form we idealize because we like it. So when you think women are written badly, I think of all the really awesome characters I've personally liked who are written well. I also think of a lot of badly written games, but that's the thing: It's not sexism, it's bad writing, which I don't think you can "fight" because a lot of games (particularly action games) have no particular need for amazing writing over game mechanics.
I also want to mention that women in games, being protagonists or otherwise strong, will adopt the appearance of being very physically fit. A lot of modern game models for women are actually based on athletic or physically fit women, because art that attempts to model reality must draw from reality. Therefore, my reply to you, is "of course they fit a similar physical mold". Which is why, by consequence of arguing you want this to change, you end up with less sensible characters (physically fit ones in most cases) or less diversity by excluding physically fit ones.
I think it unfortunate you internalize being disagreed with personally. Instead of trying to figure out why I am thinking or writing what I have, you've characterized me to fit people who've disagreed with you in the past. I took the time, and this delay, to try and figure out why you think the things you do, and came up with the realization we are approaching the problem at opposite ends. I only ask you take time to contemplate my end of it, and the consequences of your end of it, to better understand my concerns. As I have tried to do with yours.
[–] Bastou ago
Thank you for having taken that pause and the necessary time to think about what I wrote before replying. I did the same. And now that I re-read your reply, I think you are right. I think we agree on way more than we both initially thought, but we took two opposite subgroups of games to make up our general opinion of the industry as a whole.
I think you're right : that's the biggest problem. And there's nothing easy and fast we can do about it. We simply need to encourage more people, and more independent studios, to develop games. And with quantity will come diversity. Don't get me wrong, bad writing is not a problem in itself : there's a market for such games, and the proof is that they do sell. And I've seen many story driven games in the last few years, so the future does seem to brighten in this aspect.
And specifically about the appearance and physical aspect of female characters in video games, I'm absolutely not opposed to stereotypical big breasted semi-nude physically idealized bodies. They have their place, just as other body types should have theirs as well. And for the same reason as with characters' personalities, we're getting better games in this aspect as well out of late. And I hope the whole situation will get better as the general shift in mentality happens in our society at large, and the various entertainment industries (Cinema, TV, video games, etc.) welcome more female creators in their ranks. Which in turn will attract more female gamers as well. Then the sensible feminists will have little to complain about, and we can argue with the radical ones who are all but sensible anyway.
Just to make sure you understand me correctly : I don't want to exclude any type. If a female character is supposed to be strong, it's just normal that she should be modeled on a fit real woman. I would never oppose that. But to retake my example from before, to me, a big breasted skinny woman doesn't appear fit at all, she appears surrealistically transformed by surgery, which would make her muscles and skin weak, and her back would be on a constant pressure to hold up her big breasts, so she'd have a terrible posture, and chronic back pain. This is the opposite of a strong woman. But it's perfectly fine in a fantasy ideally visual world of some types of games, where physics are purposefully ignore for the sake of entertainment. Some people prefer to have fun and don't care about realism. And that's fine, they should have a choice of games for them (as they presently do). And some others prefer physically and mentally realist characters. All I'm saying is these latter gamers should have a little bit more choices than they actually have.
I don't have the talent to make games myself. But I will gladly buy games that are well made and well written to encourage their developers in making more of them. That's the contribution I can realistically make for that cause. The other one I can do is explain the sensible arguments about it in a rational way, differentiating the actual complaints of sensible feminists from the outrage of some radical feminists, which I highly suspect is only the fantasy creation of sensible feminists' opponents in their efforts to discredit them (honestly I have absolutely no proof of it, so I'd never argue this is anywhere near reality). While I know the type of change feminists are asking for certainly will not happen all of a sudden in the next few years, but progressively in the next decades, it will only happen if we encourage the diversity we want in games or, as you propose, make such games ourselves, if we have such talent.