[–] 20367364? 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
You mean during a crisis? The coin is also worth more, and surely by a wider margin than before! Which is why you should have the coin! You should buy your coins BEFORE that happens. Junk silver, if you want my advice. But let's be serious, if it comes to that, you'll be very happy to have metal in either form.
If you want to imagine selling in a mad-max situatuion where there is limited infrastructure... you bet your ass coins will be preferred over bars, and the smaller the better, because coins are way easier to verify. Someone who is experienced looking at coins can verify them to a pretty high confidence with just a magnifying glass and a micrometer.
But to verify a generic bar, you pretty much have to refine it. Maybe with ultrasound you can get some certainty but even today, even with fully functioning infrastructure, I've had a major dealer tell me no, we have to refine the bar you're selling to us. You have to wait until our refinery receives it before you get your $. But for Eagles, they paid me instantly on receipt.
There's a reason coins exist my Fren. They are precisely measured units stamped to ensure authenticity... much harder to fake than a crude lump of metal.
I don't watch the market as close as I used to but last time we had rising metal prices the premiums were going up faster than the metals. Especially on silver products (junk and eagles, both).
The premium (on non-numismatic items) is a GOOD investment. Within reason of course. I know it seems obvious that paying "less" is better, but it's not true. Not being in coin form costs you when you sell. You should reconsider.
[–] 20367671? ago (edited ago)
Is APMEX a good dealer? They insisted my kilo bar had to be refined. Maybe it wasn't actually melted down by the refiner... maybe the refiner relied on such methods as you describe. But APMEX was effectively outsourcing the testing of the product.
I've sold coins and bars to another dealer who used the sigma products, and they tested them in front of me. But they refused one of my silver bars because it registered outside of the tightest "confidence band" on the sigma. They said the bar was probably fine but they just didn't want it. They said all the bars I was selling them would be recast, while the coins would be resold as is.
These kind of experiences have convinced me not to buy generic products any more. Of course any product is easy to buy, but I don't like being hassled or struggling to get a good price on the sell side.
[–] [deleted] ago
The coin will ALWAYS have a premium over a generic product.
It seems you are being intentionally obtuse or trolling me at this point.
If you want to carry on discussing, please give me some indication that you are reading and attempting to comprehend my responses. I don't think you are getting any of this, so I'm replying more for the benefit of others who might value this information, than I am for you.
I think we've pretty much exhausted this topic now. It's really not that complicated.
[–] 20367719? 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Help me.
What does "non-numismatic" mean?
Also, what does a US Gold Eagles (random year) coin look like?
Where can I get them? Local?
[–] 20367872? ago (edited ago)
That means it's not a rare coin. I mean it's not rare in the way that let's say certain baseball cards are rare.
Of course, it is still very valuable because it's made of gold, which is itself rare compared to iron or whatever. But gold is a commodity and it's that commodity which you are presumably interested in owning.
Let's talk about Gold Eagles specifically.
When the mint makes these, they are stamping the coins between dies to make the imprint. When those dies are brand new, the coins come out looking extra beautiful and shiny. These are called "proofs". Some people think these coins are really delightful so they pay extra for them, and they even get them graded sort of like how diamonds are graded, and they come packaged in plastic sleeves certifying that they are a certain grade. If you want to, you can pay a lot on top of what these coins otherwise go for, to have one of these special ones.
It's not a good idea to buy those special-edition products if you just want to invest in the price of gold. The reason being, when you go to sell your special coin, it can be hard to find a buyer who cares as much about that numismatic value as you did, when you bought it.
People who just want to invest in GOLD, the metal, should not buy those products. They should buy "random year" coins which means you are getting coins that do not have such special rarity. They are just any Gold Eagle coin that the dealer has on hand (although not totally beat up either, they have to be presentable. BU "brilliant uncirculated" is the normal standard).
Now, there's another kid of numismatic value we could talk about which is if you get a hold of lets say an old Spanish gold coin, that is going to be worth way, way, more than the value of the constituent gold. And if you know how to find bargains in such coins (perhaps from an estate sale, I don't know) then you could earn a profit by trading them in much the same way that people make a profit trading baseball cards or comic books. But that kind of trading has nothing to do with investing in gold per se.
Current spot price of gold: 1545.90 https://www.kitco.com/market/ (This is what a certain large size contract trades for on one of the commodity exchanges.)
Example products (price at 100 per):
Random year Eagle $1,576.99 ($31 over spot) https://www.apmex.com/product/1/1-oz-gold-american-eagle-bu-random-year
2019 Eagle $1,607.39 https://www.apmex.com/product/171251/2019-1-oz-gold-american-eagle-bu
Some 20th anniversay thing I have no idea what this is: $2,795.00 https://www.apmex.com/product/23473/2006-w-1-oz-reverse-proof-gold-eagle-pf-70-ngc-20th-anniv
Random year means the dealer will sell you whatever they have on hand. Could be a brand new, minted in 2019 coin, or it could be a 1985 coin. In either case it will be a good coin. And in either case the coin has EXACTLY the same resale value. These coins are non-numismatic.
Therefore, the premium on the 2019 coin over the "random year" coin is a guaranteed waste of money, because either of these coins will be bought back for the exact same price.
As for the "proof" coin... I am not knowledgeable about that product, and I have no idea what anyone would buy that back for, but I would guess if you had to sell that the day after you bought it, you would take a sizeable loss, who knows maybe 10 or 20%.
As for the random year coin, usually dealers pay about spot price for these coins, although I don't know right now, I've never seen the premium that low so maybe right now they are paying a little under spot price. Anyway you are looking at about a 2 to 2.5% trade spread on this product (qty 100). Whereas for generic bullion (eg kilo bars) it is more like 2.5 to 3% at the same qty. that's the dealer's gross margin. The difference is really not much, either product is good. But I've had better luck with coins, they are just easier and quicker to sell.
PS: I have linked to APMEX here not to endorse them specifically but because they are a pretty big dealer and that makes them something of a benchmark for pricing.
You might find slightly better prices elsewhere, especially if you are looking at smaller quantity. JM Bullion is good, so is Gainesville Coins. Local shop is possibly good, just make sure they have good reviews and get a competitive quote online from a major dealer before you go looking at local retail.
ALL coin dealers in the US will trade Gold Eagles and ALL of them will know what you mean if you ask for "random year".