[–] sonuvspam 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
No, I agree there, We are not all equal in terms of what personal strengths we bring to the table, and we are not all equally fortunate in having had parents who managed (or even tried) to instill/inspire those qualities. However, the vast majority of those who fail in America, do so because of their own inclination to pursue immediate pleasures and avoid sacrifice for the sake of the future. That is 100% the source of my own failures, as well, discounting the bad luck, which, I could argue, was created as a result of irresponsible choices. However, it's too tempting, especially in today's victim/disparity/1% climate, to cop out and blame "the system" rather than look inward. Therefore, I both defend "the system" that offered me opportunities I failed to fully exploit and push back vehemently against ANY such narrative that personal failure, within America, at least, is the result of anything but personal failure. Now, I know that is not without error, but after careful consideration, I have decided that 1. the numerical balance favors me (ie, more personal failures than true, indisputable victims of circumstance) and 2. the damage to be done by allowing such a narrative to persist unchallenged out weighs the damage to be done by mischaracterizing some hypothetical "true victim" or, worst case, the numerical minority of actual "true victims" who are currently unknown to me and not party to this or any similar discussion with me. So, I therefore repeat my question, if only for the walls to hear...an open question to anybody with such complaints (which are the fertile soil in which marxist bullshit takes root,) WHERE is it actually better than in the US?
Having said that, thank you for maintaining the civility, its a rare action to take, one that I sometimes do not, nor feel that I always should...but, I suppose somebody should, some of the time, because such things DO have value. Take it easy, and good luck with whatever cross your are bearing at the moment (and any future ones)
[–] HAESisalie ago
This was an EXCELLENT closing post on the matter, and I truly appreciate it.
As far as your question - I cannot truly answer that without first hand knowledge, but for opportunity to move up the social and economical hierarchy, the actual data suggests Much of Europe. Of course most of us on Voat see looming issues in that part of the world that to me would give GREAT pause to actually considering it the best place to live etc. Personally as an old cyclist I would have loved to move to the Netherlands, but alas...
Best of luck to you and hope we can have other equally fruitful and enjoyable discussions in the future.
[–] sonuvspam 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I believe that , after a few conversations with working-class europeans, you will conclude that Europe, Netherlands (72% income tax plus property tax, VAT and admistrative/privelege fees) has the same, if not more severe, barriers to upward mobility as the US or any other industrialized society. They are not insurmountable (though for many individuals, they are) but they do become more stringent the higher one tries to rise...that's the natural state of hierarchy and will never change, in any scheme, not even within a pack of dogs. It's important to remember that your position in the hierarchy is relative, what seems low within our own society is already pretty high by global standards. In Somalia, and similar countries, the poor die of starvation, malnourishment related illness and easily preventable diseases...in America, the poor die of obesity and related illnesses. You will never understand the true wealth of America's poor until you have been disposessed and rendered homeless in one of those countries (which I have)
[–] HAESisalie ago (edited ago)
Oh, and btw, that comment I made about "looking down from your lofty perch" was a bit much and out of line. You get so used to the hardcore insults on here, and I can do that as well if provoked, that slipping that in seemed almost benign. My apologies, you did not deserve that, nor did what you were expressing warrant it.
[–] sonuvspam 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
No problem