0
1

[–] Aranarth 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Please see the article below, for a clearer look at the same type of data collected by PEW. It reviews how comparatively the mobility hasn't been fantastic compared to other countries, but as an absolute comparative America has increased mobility due to to overall increase of wealth and prosperity. This increase in economic success gives more mobility overall, though it does call out there has been no comparable studies done for other countries to give a definitive metric. Basically, the rising tide and everyone's boats, except for those actively sabotaging themselves through poor choices.

So no, I am not saying "hurr durr America is the best at everything, even though I have no idea what the data actually shows!"

I am saying the US has a whole host of issues, and one of them is a culture of instant gratification that robs the population of real opportunities if they were not raised fiscally responsible, which most weren't.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/economic-mobility-united-states-compared-europe-scandinavia/

0
0

[–] HAESisalie ago 

Well, I totally agree with instant gratification, lack of work ethic, entitlement attitude "Give me!" etc. and POOR choices being factor in why SOME people fail to rise up the economic strata, but in many cases those are not the reason, and many people who fall into the upper strata make even worse personal choices, but succeed despite of that simply because of how the system is rigged. And it is rigged. Surely you understand that the rich are not immune from poor personal choices, they just have built in protection against suffering the same repercussions as the rest of us.

0
2

[–] Aranarth 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I don't think anyone could argue with the fact that money or connections make life easier, hurdles lower, or emergency less world destroying.

I too came from a background that was suboptimal, to say the least, and we both know people who could have done more and didn't. We both must be know people who who sneered at hard working people trying to better themselves, and took joy at their stumbles, but the fact that you and I are having this conversation not living in the same conditions must indicate something. Even anecdotally.

Some have, and take advantage of it, as anyone would. Some have it and squander it away, some say because they don't understand what value is.

Others could have worked for it, and didn't, while others preserved and got as far as they could.

That is something I hope we can agree on.

0
2

[–] sonuvspam 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Mechanisms exist, but people don't avail of them because it requires actually deferring gratification and working towards a goal. Example...Honorable retirement from ANY branch of the US Military, Coast Guard included. Any able bodied citizen, no matter how poor, can workhard enough in free public school to pass the ASVAB and join, at which time...instant paid job, full healthcare for self, spouse and offspring (including birthing said offspring) $200k+ for college, VA mortgage/small business loan access, pension at 50 regardless of employment and veterans preference for govt jobs...making possible actual retirement with TWO govt pensions. But, ohh..it takes work, sacrifice and a plan. How unjust...

0
0

[–] HAESisalie ago  (edited ago)

I was looking more for data than feels, but thanks anyway. The data I am finding does not support your notions of boundless opportunity to rise up the caste system in the US.

As far as feels, mine are: I myself made huge sacrifices to make the best of my VERY limited opportunities. Despite my humble beginnings and some actual impediments to success that were no fault of my own, I rose up to make a 6 figure salary, but even with that and a superior work ethic and competence, I never came close to matching peers who were insta granted access to upper class from birth and access to social circles, elite private schooling that they only got because of $$$ and not merit, and universities, all where they gained important social connections to give them huge advantages, and the ability to maintain upper status no matter what through those familial and social connections.

I had to pound the pavement and prove myself to get any opportunity, while other simply called a fraternity buddy, or old family connection, after completely fucking up in their previous positions and would get a job immediately.

One arrest, serious medical connection etc and it would have been game over for me, while those things meant little to their careers. I also wasn't born with fetal alcohol syndrome, or abused emotionally and physically throughout my childhood, or forced to attend some shitty public school full of blacks where learning is impossible, simply because I was born to shitbird parents.

I think things are much more complicated in life than you think.

0
1

[–] sonuvspam 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I never said "boundless." Of course there are bounds. But...YOUR personal experience does not define society. I get what you are saying...some people have it better than you. Wahh. How many have it worse? And what's your basis for comparison...you got a more preferred society, where you might rise out of the "caste system?" Or, failing that, any ACTIONABLE ideas (as opposed to idealistic whinings) on how to improve ours? If so, have you actually acted on them? I dont see your frame of reference.