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[–] MrNPC 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

Personally, I believe that it shouldnt be displayed on government property. But I do believe it is a person's right to own and display it on their property and on their person as a matter of freedom. I believe the same for the Nazi flag and the KKK flag. Though I personally agree with none of them

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[–] TheManWhoLaughs 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

This. The First Amendment allows you to own and display whatever flag you like, but to fly a different countries flag on government property is just wrong, and yes... the confederate flag is the flag of another country. America, the America we live in today, won the war. The Confederates lost. Feel free to own all the flags that you like, but don't pretend like that flag represents America.

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[–] Immigrant 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Well to be fair, it's not actually a foreign nation; no country ever recognized the confederacy as an independent nation, at the same time, it's a little wrong to display the flag of a failed rebellion on of the property of the government that win the rebellion.

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[–] Honeylemon 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Could not agree more. That flag effectively represents treason as it was a different "country's" flag. I don't get why any government entity would allow that to fly. I am all for people personally flying that flag. I don't care either way as it is their personal preference.

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[–] oowensby ago 

But! CSA veterans are USA veterans - by Act(s) of Congress.

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[–] Cherrio_Forel 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Agreed, and then the people in the community have the right to shun those biggots.

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[–] MrNPC 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Also agreed. people have the right to do as they wish, but your rights end where someone else's begins. You have the right to have the Confederate flag in your front window, but everyone else has the right to ignore every word that comes out of your mouth

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[–] oowensby 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Absolutely! The "Confedrate Battle Flag" was the flag that pretty much all white Southern Democratic politicians campaigned under between the middle 1950s and the 1990s - including Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and AL Gore.

Seriously, after the Civil War, the flag was always used as a big FU to all those yankee imperialist carpetbaggers trying to interfere with where they don't belong.

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[–] Piotr 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I checked the claim about Clinton using the flag. Here's agood piece about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/06/22/what-those-clinton-gore-confederate-flag-buttons-say-about-politics-in-2015/

Tldr: They were not officially sanctioned by the Clinton campaign but, unofficially, they may have been.

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[–] oowensby ago 

I'm willing to bet that there were pins and other literature that were authorized by the individual state party and Clinton campaign offices. There were almost always posters of Democrat candidates pictures imposed over a background of crossed US/CSA flags. The use of Confederate symbolisms in campaign paraphernalia was probably not authorized (officially) by the national campaigns or the DNC.

During the 1980s serious efforts to remove the Confederate symbolism from official state usage, at least here in my state of Georgia, began. You will realize that, in the South, Democratic politicians really, really need the Black vote. In Georgia, African-Americans are about 30% of the electorate in statewide elections.

The "State Approved Official History" of the Georgia state flag is here:

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/government-politics/state-flags-georgia

Also of note: I'm sure that 'someone' has been fiddling with the Google image search results. If you search on "Jimmy Carter Confederate Flag" there is no color photo of JC with any Confederate flag before the "show more results" button - or even with the Georgia flag of the time. Jimmy Carter made it a big part of his 1976 Campaign to appear on the stage of every "Southern Rock" concert that he could. The "Rebel Flag" was always featured prominently at these concerts.

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[–] Honeylemon 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

I did a lot of research on order to form an educated opinion on this subject and this is what I found. (Even talked to a gentleman who has his PhD in History)

The flag was not a flag that flew over the Confederate States. It was the battle flag for Robert E Lee himself. So to say it is a Confederate flag at all is horribly wrong. The flag was seen after the American Civil War but not at all like it is now in this day and age. It wasn't until the Civil Rights movement that it was resurrected as the symbol of "The South".

I am also very curious if the people arguing that it has nothing to do with race know the actual history behind it.

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[–] BobDaBuilder 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Ironically both sides seem to know a the history but they just empathize aspects of that history differently.. to their own agenda obviously.

Basically only douchebags fly it and only douchebags want to ban it.

I'll just sit in the corner and eat popcorn.

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[–] Stanley_Yelnats_IV 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I'd say it ultimately doesn't matter what it means. The beauty of a nation with firm free speech laws is that you can fly whatever flag you want, even if it does carry offensive connotations. As someone else has already pointed out, you can fly a Nazi or USSR flag if you really want, and you have the right to do so.

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[–] Tythetyrant 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I no way shape or form am I trying to convince anyone that I am correct. I know that I am probably wrong, but as a southerner this is my honest feelings, and if we are going to have a serious discussion you should to understand where the other side is coming from.

Normally I never ever weigh in on these kinds of discussion but I think that enough time is passed so that I can explain what my feelings are about the flag without being drowned out. I'm a southern I was born, grew up and still live in Tennessee. I have college degree from a highly ranked, and large university, not some bullshit community college. I say that only so you know that this opinion is not coming from some guy living in a trailer, that is married to his cousin. That's my neighbors, just kidding. When I was growing up the flag never represented hate to me. Although I totally understand why most people think that it does. Most people didn't fly the flag but those that did were not looked down upon in my community. What Northerners need to understand is that if you don't grow up in the South around the people, and the culture, it is very difficult, maybe impossible for you to understand all the nuanced feelings about the flag. Mostly because you can never get past the narrow view point that was drilled into your heads during history class in high school. I can describe my point best this way. The "don't tread on me" flag, now associated with the Tea Party is a historical flag that dates back to the American revolution. Way before the tea party, that flag had a totally different meaning then what it does now. When the Tea Party started filling up with crazy religious zealots the flag got associated with them, and that ruined it for me. I was mad because I don't agree with those people but I agree with the original message the flag represented. Over the years the confederate flag has been used for many different causes and represent many different feelings to individuals. Some of them horrible things, but we don't stop flying the American flag because of the trail of tears, or the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII. ( I understand that its not even on the same scale but im trying to make a point so give me some slack, im trying to be honest) We say those things were horrible, we condemn them and keep on moving. For me personally the flag represents rebellion against federal authority and overreach, southern heritage, southern pride, states rights, and an independent spirit. I know that im in the minority and that's fine. For the common southerner (95% percent of southerns never owned slaves) that died on the battlefield, they were fighting their war of independence, not for slavery. Many of those feelings still resonate in a way. I hate that the flag has been associated with the KKK and other racist, those inbred racist fucks are ruining my flag. Many southerns will avoid flying the flag because of those racist groups, including myself. I want to fly it, but i cant because racist people are fucking retarded, and i don't want to have to explain myself ever 5 seconds or be called a racist. So I fly this flag Northerns dont know what it is and southerns usually get what im trying say. It has all the southerness without the stigma.

If South Carolina wants to take the flag down I really don't care, but it should be up to people in South Carolina. They probably should.

The vast overwhelming majority of people that I know and have known that grew up in the south are not racist and have told me that the the flag doesn't represent racism to them. However those southerns that do choose to fly the flag know that many other people think that it does represent racism, they just don't care. They dont bitch or complain like SJW's they just say "fuck them, i dont care" and move on.

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[–] Piotr 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

I appreciate you sharing that opinion as it was very interesting.

After reading your comment, I've come to think that the problem lies in the fact that some people are trying to selectively choose what the flag represents. The Nazi flag may just have been the flag of a country of people most of whom had nothing to do with the Holocaust, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have an association with hate and genocide. Likewise, I understand the state's rights arguments you presented, but the confederate battle flag is still a reminder of slavery. EVEN IF the flag had nothing to do with slavery, but people still associated it as such - shouldn't you respect the feelings of others enough to not fly it openly (I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to fly it, but that you perhaps should choose not to do so).

As for southerners choosing whether or not the flag should fly at state capitols, I don't understand why that should even be an option. You yourself associate the flag with a political stance rather than a representation of any real government entity.

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[–] dweazy [S] ago 

I really truly appreciate this response. As a northern it does help me better understand why so many Southerners do still fly that flag. The history major side of me does it make it difficult to understand why it is okay to fly a flag used by legitimate rebels, but I guess that is really neither here nor there.

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[–] Tythetyrant ago 

I know its been a few a days but I thought this video should be added to the debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbvDRY0O30E