[–] 12301940? 0 points 4 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago
The Netherlands are one of the most amazing success stories of early modern Europe and of the power of capitalism, a tiny swampland nation of fishers and sailors not only surviving the wrath of House Habsburg, but thriving and turning it into an economic powerhouse.
I am not very familiar with the treatment and position of Jews in the Netherlands at that time, but it wouldn't surprise me if in a nation built on trade they were thriving and adding to the economy. I know that they definitively played an important role in growing Antwerp and its economy.
Not that I am one of those who need to be convinced. As a Capitalist first and an admirer of the likes of Fritz Haber or Ludwig Mises second, I am part of the choir that is being preached to.
[–] MetalAegis ago
You can bet they didn't do it out of altruism but rather for a profit or the consolidation of power, one could argue that nearly every discovery or grand gesture of alluded altruism was motivated by a desire for profit, power or fame, say for the ones that cared specifically for the betterment of mankind.
Nothing sacrificed, everything gained, is that true altruism?
[–] 12302118? 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
What is the greatest lie every created? What is the most vicious obscenity ever perpetrated on mankind? Slavery? The Holocaust? Dictatorship? No. It's the tool with which all that wickedness is built: Altruism. Whenever anyone wants others to do their work, they call upon their Altruism. 'Never mind your own needs', they say, 'think of the needs of... of whoever. The state. The poor. Of the army. Of the king. Of God!' The list goes on and on. How many catastrophes were launched with the words: 'Think of yourself?' It's the "king and country" crowd who light the torch of destruction. It is this great inversion, this ancient lie, which has chained humanity to an endless cycle of guilt and failure.
Plot spoiler: Most, if not virtually all achievements of humanity were driven by selfish gains and the ability to reap the fruits of the necessary labour to achieve them.
[–] MetalAegis 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
No arguments here, but in the end there needs to be a balance of personal amelioration and societal progression.
[–] Joe_McCarthy [S] 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Doesn't seem particularly unique to Jews though. If one agrees with Schopenhauer (part Dutch as an aside) altruistic acts have a selfish motive if only in the good feeling one acquires in doing a good deed.
[–] Quaestorr 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
Schopenhauer (part Dutch as an aside)
Never knew that, thanks!
altruistic acts have a selfish motive if only in the good feeling one acquires in doing a good deed.
This is one of the core ideas of my personal Weltanschauung. (Btw Richard Dawkins (probably not popular in these circles — a pity imho) wrote interesting stuff on this in The Selfish Gene.)
Still, I think it is possible to come to an idealistic morality based on a Nietzschean utilitarianism, that in practice differs little from Christian virtue. (I refer to the Christianity that inspired the medieval poets and troubadours to compose stories and songs about heroic knights; the noble faith practiced by proud Europeans, Americans, South Africans — of course not the self-loathing cult that it has become today in most of the West).
[–] MetalAegis 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
Not all, the story of Jesus Christ and ultimate sacrifice is one of altruism. In fact nearly all willing martyrs that have had a positive effect on society did so out of altruism. But your original point that something is never done for nothing, I can't refute that philosophical axiom because seemingly it speaks true, but anecdotally how many times have you offered to help someone and you really didn't want to, received nothing in return, not even that feeling of benevolence but you helped regardless?
[–] KosherHiveKicker 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago (edited ago)
Jews were so influential in those colonies that slave auctions scheduled to take place on Jewish holidays often were postponed, according to Marc Lee Raphael, a professor of Judaic studies at the College of William & Mary.
“Money was earned by Jewish communities in South America, partly through slavery, and went to Holland, where Jewish bankers handled it,” he said. “Non-Jews were also complicit, but so were we. I feel partly complicit.”
Though he holds no official position in the Dutch Jewish community, van de Kamp, 65, is among the best-known Orthodox rabbis in the Netherlands, a status earned through his several books on Dutch Jewry and frequent media appearances.
His forthcoming book, a historical novel entitled “The Jewish Slave,” follows an 18th-century Jewish merchant and his black slave as they investigate Dutch-owned plantations north of Brazil in the hope of persuading Jews to divest from the slave trade. In researching the book, van de Kamp discovered data that shocked him.
[–] KosherHiveKicker ago (edited ago)
The same "justification" could be made that Mexico's drug cartels are "stimulating commerce in the South America." Mexico, and Guatemala are reaping "the rewards of all that cash flowing into stimulate" their local, city, and state economies right?
Is the Kike family making trillions while flooding The United States with Opioids also "stimulating commerce" to benefit the U.S.?
[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
[–] Joe_McCarthy [S] 1 point 1 point 2 points (+2|-1) ago
More like I've found one they helped.
To confirm your implied premise we'd need to show how Jews wrecked every country they entered. Let's take Poland as an example as up to 80% of world Jewry once resided there. In what way did they wreck that place? I don't think they particularly helped as they did in the Netherlands.
[–] KosherHiveKicker ago
The only thing you found is that you are ignorant of the truth.
[–] Quaestorr 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago (edited ago)
In Dutch history books, the Sephardic Jews that came from Portugal, are usually lumped together with Huguenots (protestants from France) and various patricians from Antwerp, who all came to (the province of) Holland, mainly Amsterdam, and who indeed stimulated commerce. These ' immigrants' are often (ab)used as examples by pro-immigrationists to make their point that immigration brings wealth with it (an absurd argument because those Jews, Huguenots and Flemish brought wealth with them, and didn't apply for social benefit doles).
To be honest I do not know much about Jewish life in the Netherlands, only that Spinoza, arguably the best-know philosopher from the Netherlands, was a Jew who was banished by the Jewish community because of his religious ideas.
I think that the various Jewish communities in the Netherlands, were organized parallel to the various protestant-Christian denominations in the sense that in both religions there was (is) a gradient from an orthodox to a liberal interpretations of the religious lore.
Antisemitism seems to never have been as virulent as in other countries. Even in the era of nascent fascism, the largest Dutch nazi movement, the NSB, originally hadn't any antisemitic ideas, and even had several Jewish members. Later, under increasing influence from Germany (especially after the 10th of May 1940, when the Netherlands were occupied by the German military and de facto placed into custody of the SS) the NSB radicalized. Mussert, its leader who became increasingly less popular with the German occupier (who favoured the radical Rost-van Tonningen), tried to save some of these Jews (by having them placed into a care home), but eventually all but one were sent to the concentration camps anyway.