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[–] Shekelstein6M 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

"As Ibn Khaldun, the fourteenth-century Arab historiographer and sociologist suggests, it is a remarkable fact that with few exceptions, most Muslim scholars in the intellectual sciences were Ajams ("Persians"):"

Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent… they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar … great jurists were Persians … only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it' … The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them … as was the case with all crafts … This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana [=modern Central Asia], retained their sedentary culture. — Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah

Now you can do more of your own research, if you want to actually question your own beliefs.

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[–] TheBuddha [S] 2 points 1 point (+3|-2) ago 

Allow me to quote your statement with which I have objection (and which your own quote confirms my statements):

They stopped advancing when they raped and converted everyone they could.

So, I need only point to one example to demonstrate that as untrue. You've been kind enough to do that for me.

Here was your initial statement:

When muslims stopped conquering they stopped advancing scientifically.

Which, now demonstrably false if we accept your statement at full value.

If we view my initial statement, it was that a goodly amount of our mathematics came from Arabia - which remains true. Much of this was done (and advanced) while under the empire.

I'm NOT saying that it was a panacea - and, to go back to my original statement, I am saying they were pretty good stewards. Indeed, they were.

There's seemingly some miscommunication here. I will try to make it more clear.

Math and science did pretty well under the Arabic empires (there were several disputing empires and some strange history). Some of this advancement was done by people of Arabic decent. Some of it was done by people who practiced the Muslim faith. All in all, they did pretty well with it.

They were not the apex of knowledge. They were not some glorious scholars who lived an idyllic life of higher learning. They had wonderful centers of knowledge and preserved much of the older bodies of work which some scholars give partial credit for the enlightenment.

This is pretty clearly established stuff.

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[–] Shekelstein6M 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Which, now demonstrably false if we accept your statement at full value.

It's actually demonstrably true. The Islamic golden age coincided with the largest extent of the islamic caliphate. Not including the ottomans, their scientific advancements slowed down and essentially stopped by the time they started losing territory.

The ottomans lasted longer, because they came later and conquered Constantinople. But after they stopped conquering they fell behind very quickly and in a mater of decades were no longer competitive.

If we view my initial statement, it was that a goodly amount of our mathematics came from Arabia - which remains true. Much of this was done (and advanced) while under the empire.

Most of it comes from Persia actually. Your own wiki link has mostly Persians in there. Arabs mostly didn't invent shit, apart from what they could steal and claim as their own.

Most of "arabic knowledge" came from people hailing from the Scythian and Roman (Byzantine) Empires. No one can say for certain what their religion was (to represent oneself as anything but a muslim in those times was a bad idea) but they certainly were not mostly arabs.

Furthermore, we do not know how many slaves captured by the arabs were actually intellectuals, and how much of their knowledge was stolen and claimed as their own by their masters.

What I do know, through my own research of history, is how muslims operated at the time, and how the places they conquered looked before and after. To me, it's very easy to see why their "golden age" ended when it did.