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[–] TheBuddha [S] 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

That's not how this works. You made a claim contrary to the accepted history, the onus is on you to provide evidence to back up that claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and there's a ton of evidence supporting exactly what I said. I've been forthcoming and shown you said evidence instead of saying, "Look it up yourself!"

Let's see....

  • I made a statement.
  • You said it wasn't true.
  • I demonstrated that it is true according to current understanding.
  • You said it wasn't true.
  • I asked for evidence.
  • You declined to provide said evidence.

I think that's correct - am I missing a step in there? I just want to make sure we're on the same page. See, I've done my research and this is what I came up with. I've done my job.

As I said, it's not a major concern if you choose to believe whatever. What is important is that I've posted the correction here and provided citations so that other people can see the evidence and reach their own conclusions. Meh... Either way, I think we can pretty clearly agree that the golden age of Arabia is long since gone and that the current area is, as Trump might say, "A shithole."

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[–] Shekelstein6M 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago  (edited ago)

"As Ibn Khaldun, the fourteenth-century Arab historiographer and sociologist suggests, it is a remarkable fact that with few exceptions, most Muslim scholars in the intellectual sciences were Ajams ("Persians"):"

Thus the founders of grammar were Sibawaih and after him, al-Farisi and Az-Zajjaj. All of them were of Persian descent… they invented rules of (Arabic) grammar … great jurists were Persians … only the Persians engaged in the task of preserving knowledge and writing systematic scholarly works. Thus the truth of the statement of the prophet becomes apparent, 'If learning were suspended in the highest parts of heaven the Persians would attain it' … The intellectual sciences were also the preserve of the Persians, left alone by the Arabs, who did not cultivate them … as was the case with all crafts … This situation continued in the cities as long as the Persians and Persian countries, Iraq, Khorasan and Transoxiana [=modern Central Asia], retained their sedentary culture. — Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah

Now you can do more of your own research, if you want to actually question your own beliefs.

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[–] TheBuddha [S] 2 points 1 point (+3|-2) ago 

Allow me to quote your statement with which I have objection (and which your own quote confirms my statements):

They stopped advancing when they raped and converted everyone they could.

So, I need only point to one example to demonstrate that as untrue. You've been kind enough to do that for me.

Here was your initial statement:

When muslims stopped conquering they stopped advancing scientifically.

Which, now demonstrably false if we accept your statement at full value.

If we view my initial statement, it was that a goodly amount of our mathematics came from Arabia - which remains true. Much of this was done (and advanced) while under the empire.

I'm NOT saying that it was a panacea - and, to go back to my original statement, I am saying they were pretty good stewards. Indeed, they were.

There's seemingly some miscommunication here. I will try to make it more clear.

Math and science did pretty well under the Arabic empires (there were several disputing empires and some strange history). Some of this advancement was done by people of Arabic decent. Some of it was done by people who practiced the Muslim faith. All in all, they did pretty well with it.

They were not the apex of knowledge. They were not some glorious scholars who lived an idyllic life of higher learning. They had wonderful centers of knowledge and preserved much of the older bodies of work which some scholars give partial credit for the enlightenment.

This is pretty clearly established stuff.

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[–] Le_Squish 2 points 2 points (+4|-2) ago 

Brah, you just made a claim. Don't pussy out after being asked to verify your "research".

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[–] Rotteuxx 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

They're still going at it & @thebuddha is about to make him mop the floor.

I love Voat, you can learn so much from people arguing.

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[–] TheBuddha [S] 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago 

I'm actually a bit surprised with the civility and am very grateful for it.