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[–] ZYX321 1 point 3 points (+4|-1) ago 

Unfortunately the definition of species isn't that straightforward, nor is there a specific definition or test agreed upon by all biologists.

The different breeds of dog would probably meet most tests for species if they occurred like that in the wild but would obviously still be able to breed. I believe grizzly and polar bears can breed.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Dortex 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Many species have so called "hybridization zones" where actual, viable offspring tend to be found. Without the tendency to select for each other, like in the case of these new birds, you don't get speciation, pretty much by definition.

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[–] ZYX321 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Don't recall. But coyotes and wolves have bred coywolves, which can themselves produce viable offspring.

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[–] Anonymous_User_69 1 point 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

Well let's forget about if we call it species or not. Either way this is not a significant discovery. It's nothing more than finding out poodles and labs can make labordoodles.

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[–] ZYX321 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

And that the labradoodles have established a meaningful population.

Given the different behaviors and appearances of labradoodles to poodles or labs, I don't think it is as insignificant as you think.

Like most science, it is easy to imagine, but observing it happening in the wild is new. Additionally, in this case, the bird was not simply a mixture of the properties of the two parent species:

the newcomer, a male that sang an unusual song and was much larger in body and beak size than the three resident species of birds on the island

Edit: as dortex pointed out, that quote is regarding the new bird on the island that apparently flew in over a strait or something. Not the new offspring.

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[–] Dortex 1 point -1 points (+0|-1) ago 

Yes it is. A bird was introduced into an island where it was less likely to reproduce due to the other species' sexual preferences. He managed the unlikely feat then his offspring selectively bred with each other to the exclusion of the island's native species; a key trait of Speciation.

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[–] Dortex ago 

Each has its ups and downs. Viruses, for example, mutate fast as fuck. Especially retroviruses. And they use cells to reproduce. So does this mean viruses and cells are the same species? Obviously you need different definitions depending on the context because, objectively speaking, the concept of a species came about only because humans like to put blurry things into nice, well-defined boxes.

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[–] B3bomber ago 

They can and have.

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[–] middle_path 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

The fact that the bird was able to reproduce with the other birds and have viable offspring means they were already the same species.

You know lions and tigers can have children together, right? Also, what's a mule?

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[–] Dortex ago 

Viruses and cells can reproduce together. Must be the same species.

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[–] Anonymous_User_69 ago 

Those are non viable hybrids which cannot reproduce

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[–] middle_path 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Oh fuck, I read what you originally said wrong.

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[–] chirogonemd 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

The ability to breed and produce a viable offspring from a single breeding event is not sufficient to define two separate animals as being the same species. A lion and a tiger can mate and produce a "viable" offspring. A horse and a donkey can. You find that the rules tend to bend depending on the class. You may find biologists responsible for discovering two different frogs separated by 20 miles on a river will name these different species despite their ability to interbreed and being almost largely the same, except for occupying a different micro-habitat and possibly displaying some different behaviors.

The real issue is mongrelization. The offspring of two different 'species' may be viable, but over time genetic defects occur and accumulate, eventually leading to non-viability after a few generations. Intelligence will decrease. Fertility may be gone very quickly, and a first generation hybrid may be sterile.

But all humans are the same! Um, okay. Race mixing leads to mongrelization. This was a very specifically outlined goal of the Kalergi Plan. They realize that race mixing in humans leads to mongrel offspring, with the more events occuring over successive generations leading to greater and greater dilution of the favorable intelligence of the white european genetics.