[–] [deleted] 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

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[–] BlancoCanyon 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I also think that there is another type of false argument going on. I don't know where the line should be drawn, but keeping everyone healthy is a losing proposition.

It's easy to believe that everyone should have "health care", but there is still always a line drawn. At some point, this treatment or that drug will be not be covered.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] 3ducks0stones 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

No such thing as 100% in the real world.

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[–] CujoQuarrel 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

If I had stayed with O'care my monthly payment this year would have been $1400.

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[–] Kek_is_with_you 0 points 7 points (+7|-0) ago 

From what I've understood, that 20 million is bullshit. Yes, 20 million will lose single payer coverage but that group usually qualifies for Medicare. So in essence, nobody is loosing insurance, it's a scare tactic.

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[–] Demwitsarestupid 0 points 10 points (+10|-0) ago 

Are you aware that the USA didn't have obamacare from 1776 until 2010? Are you aware that obamacare totally fucked up the greatest healthcare system in the world for no good reason? Are you old enough to remember Demwits crying back in 07 and 08 about the 40 million poor working people who couldn't afford health insurance so they passed a law requiring those 40 million who couldn't afford insurance to buy insurance? Are you gullible enough to believe what the media and Demwits tell you?

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[–] Spez_sucks_cock 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I thought the law that prevent interstate competition also played a part into this

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[–] Demwitsarestupid 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Yeah, that's just typical Democrat regulation that makes things worse just like all Dem regulation.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] Demwitsarestupid 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Because Democrats are liars. If in 2008 there had really been tens of millions of working people who couldn't afford healthcare (there weren't), the Dems could have just expanded medicaid and left everything else alone - problem solved. The Democrats never gave a shit who had health insurance and who didn't. The purpose of obamacare was to give the bureaucracy control over 1/5 of the economy and to control the citizenry. The lying Demwits and their conspirators in the media always scream and tear out their hair like this every time Republicans are about to pass any law.

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[–] HuggableBear 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

The alternative is detaching health care from health insurance. Universal health insurance is not a bad thing and should probably be something we look at. Getting in a car wreck shouldn't ruin you financially for the rest of your life.

Health care, on the other hand, is just a normal part of life. Expecting someone else to pay for your health care is literally no different than expecting someone to buy you a car or a house or clothes or food.

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[–] AncientArachnid 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

Agreed in principle. But what happens if a loaf of bread costs $35? A steak $300? Rent on a trashy apartment $50,000 per month? There's a huge problem when normal, working people cannot buy something they need on a decent salary because the cost of that thing is simply too high.

Reducing cost drastically is the core issue.

30 years ago I paid $45 for an annual wellness exam, somewhere between $5 and $50 for a couple of routine tests, and maybe $15-$20 for a prescription. I paid for that myself. I made $17,500 a year back then, too, so maybe I paid it over two months' time. Fine.

Today the same might be charged out at $600-$1000, depending on how the tests were "coded" and what the prescriptions were. That's complete and total bullshit. The last car I bought didn't cost six times what my very first one did!

Costs are the core issue imo. The American people and American economy are being massively ripped off. But that's a rant for another day.

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[–] Malthrax 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

One possible solution is to lower the financial barrier for smart people to enter into medicine as a career. Costs are high because there ISN'T an over-abundance of doctors. Costs are high because medical school is expensive as fuck. Costs are high because doctors don't have to compete with one another in the "free market". Nobody does comparison shopping based on cost when picking a doctor for routine stuff.

You need enough doctors and nurses that everyone who needs one can get one easily, but not so many that its impossible for those doctors and nurses to earn a living (and pay back their student loans).

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[–] 9268599? 0 points 13 points (+13|-0) ago 

Why would this get you banned? If you can't discuss it, how can you learn anything?

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[–] VIP740 0 points 11 points (+11|-0) ago 

Hmm... I think you might be on to something.

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[–] VIP740 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

This is a big issue and the way it's dealt with is important. Simply repealing Obamacare would hurt people, but things would be no worse than they were before it was passed. Obamacare was not a sensible solution, and it still isn't. Here are some things to keep in mind.

While a record number of people have health insurance now, the quality of their insurance is undesirable. With people being coerced to buy insurance if they don't want to be fined, the the government is helping the insurance companies get business they haven't earned. The market has been established in a way that doesn't encourage competition, and is unsustainable in the long run. I myself have gone without insurance, because what would be worth having is too expensive, and what is affordable isn't worth having.

Health insurance is not healthcare. The insurance industry has had a bad influence on the healthcare industry. What most people seem to want, and what the politicians are leading them to believe they'll deliver, is unrealistic. Focus has been shifted from making sure people get healthcare (medicine, surgeries, therapy, etc...), to making sure people demand health insurance (what should only be a safety net to cover payments in extraordinary circumstances). Personally, I think the healthcare in this country should be run in such a way as to make insurance unnecessary for emergency situations (forcing people to pay taxes to be spent on treating the poor, rather than forcing people to pay private companies).

Unfortunately, neither Trump nor Clinton were offering sensible solutions to healthcare during the election.

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[–] VaingloriousDrivel 0 points 9 points (+9|-0) ago 

Any form of universal healthcare is bad, as it will inevitably lead to the state mandating what you must do and cannot do with your body. Mandating medical interventions is deeply tyrannical.

I take the view that more healthcare and easier access to it is actually bad. Modern medicine, outside a few areas like trauma, is generally more dangerous than helpful. Much of it is chemical warfare on the mind and body. Healthcare begets more healthcare in a vicious downward spiral.

The large detrimental impact of modern medicine on our society is an important redpill that I think few have swallowed, even here. The "humanitarian" and "apolitical" branding of medicine makes its crimes and impact hard to confront.

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[–] AncientArachnid 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

Agreed 100%. Have an upvoat.

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[–] 3ducks0stones ago 

Can't remember where i read it but I've seen studies comparing people that go to the doctor for every little thing, and the people who don't. The don't people live longer, and stay healthier largely.

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[–] OspreyMan 0 points 23 points (+23|-0) ago 

I'll answer you with a question for you to ponder.

What good does insurance do for people if it costs more to use it than you could afford in the first place due to high deductibles that have skyrocketed due to surging costs for the insurance industry? When nobody can afford to use it, at this point, what difference does it make? You could have 100 million people "lose it" but they couldn't use it to begin with.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] OspreyMan 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

The whole system is broke. Doctors believe they should make 200k plus a year for a fairly automated job thanks to software applications and provider protocols. Pharmacists think they deserve 150k for the same and basic memorization, and usually being drop out chem majors. Facilities buy brand new machines every year to keep up with the Jones, except improvement is usually minimal or negligible year over year. Pharma charges utilizing schemes that are fucked up. For example, there's a common drug for Hep A or C (been a while since I did CDC work). It's about 90 cents to make a dose. In Iran, due to the country's GDP, you can buy it for about 4 bucks. Here it costs about $13000 if memory serves me right. Pricing for individuals based off of GDP of residence country. Not making this up. Many drugs are priced in similar fashion, even Cancer drugs and inhalers.

This drives the cost of everything up. Sick people go in, get slapped with a 30,000 ER bill and that is paid by those in the insurance pool. You may not consume shit, but someone else consumed a lot and a broken system made it mind bogglingly expensive.

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[–] wgtt911 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

Bingo.. don't have and never had obummer care.. my deductible went from 1200 a year to 12000, plus the max out of pocket is now 20k, I can't afford to get a serious illness...

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[–] OspreyMan 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I had Obummer care for 3 months due to a lapse in job. From December to February 2 years ago. I saw my premium go up slightly from 1 year to the next but my deductible doubled. Thankfully I've got good care through work now with a modest premium, but I know how much it costs them and it's ridiculous.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] AncientArachnid 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

There are very definitely people who are benefiting from Obamacare. Primarily they are people who don't have employer-provided coverage, aren't seniors, and don't (or didn't) qualify for Medicaid.

Many of them have chronic illnesses or conditions, known as pre-existing conditions. Pre-existing conditions are enormously expensive for insurers to cover, and Obamacare required them to do so.

Are the stories you've seen in the media, about people who haven't been able to see a doctor are now able to, or someone who has had to forego diabetes or high blood pressure treatment now can have it treated, true? They certainly are. Obamacare helped many people, not all of them leeches. Did it help as many as the left claims? I doubt it. Are 20, or 40, or however many, million people gonna just POOF die in the street the instant Obamacare is dismantled? Absolutely not, that's typical leftist fear-mongering.

We need to find a way to enable health care access for those relatively few people who need it and don't otherwise have it, WITHOUT imposing a disproportionately crushing burden on tens, or hundreds, of millions of others, and their employers.

Edit: to your college analogy. It's more like absolutely everyone is required to go to college. Those who can't pay for it get financial aid. Those who can pay for it do, but for those people college now costs six times more than it did before.

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[–] OspreyMan 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Ok, 1)they are lieing to get their way. The guy who designed this was caught on camera saying it was a good thing how dumb Americans are or it would have never passed. 2) The same guy who designed it also recently said on Tucker Carlson that only those who previously would have been excluded, admittedly a very small percentage of the population, benefit from this. When pressed all he could say is it's fair to those people. But he refused to respond to why it's fair to those who must pay more so the few can get some benefits. 3) If you have no insurance at all, the hospital still legally has to treat you. If they don't, they will get sued and physicians will get licenses removed. Nobody would die because they don't have health insurance. You die from diseases, accidents, etc. Not the lack of a financial construct aimed at protecting your finances from catastrophic loss.

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