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[–] OzarkMountainMan 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago  (edited ago)

I know that every action a person makes stems from a need of that person, being good or evil are just social concepts. My path is to try and not harm anyone and help as many as possible.

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[–] middle_path [S] 1 point 0 points (+1|-1) ago 

That's a noble path. Keep on it.

[–] [deleted] ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] middle_path [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Plants are living creatures too. They suffer just as much at the hand of the agricultural industry.

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[–] OzarkMountainMan ago 

I raise most of my own food; meat, dairy and eggs. We treat our animals with respect but we are pragmatic. I can't speak for anyone else or what they consume. If you would like to debate the morality of consuming animal flesh, I'm game.

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[–] Kromulent 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

There do not seem to be very many Westerners who have credibly managed the trick. It seems somewhat less likely than winning the Powerball.

There's a lot of good than can come from exploring your mind and sorting yourself out, and it can be a very worthwhile thing to pursue for as long as you'd care to pursue it. But I think the idea of enlightenment is a myth.

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[–] middle_path [S] ago 

But I think the idea of enlightenment is a myth.

Why do you feel this way?

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[–] Kromulent ago  (edited ago)

Because we don't have any Westerners who have credibly managed it, as I've said.

Of course it depends what your definition of enlightenment is; there are certainly some folks who are unusually happy, and unusually kind, and who seem remarkable to those who know them. I suspect that many of these folks could't tell you the basics of any Eastern philosophy; they might have found their own way to an enlightened end, or they might just be on the long tail of the bell curve for no reason at all.

But I have never met, and never heard of, any living, accessible Western person who could credibly claim to have achieved enlightenment by following an Eastern Spiritual path to that goal. Some have become happier, healthier, better people, but enlightened, in my mind, suggests something more than that.

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[–] 9136896? 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

How would you define enlightenment? While I've studied Buddhism a tiny bit, I can't say I ever understood what it is.

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[–] middle_path [S] 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

My understanding is that it is a higher form of consciousness that allows one to truly understand the world, and not see it through the lense of perception.

I feel it's kind of like sex. If someone has never had an orgasm, the idea of sex is confusing. It may be somewhat understood on an intellectual level, but until you finally do it - you'll never understand it.

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[–] 9136957? ago 

Have you done it? If so, how? What did it feel like?

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[–] VoutGuy 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I define it as being mindfull.

I'm not sure one can sustain this state of mind always but I try as much as possible. Getting cut off in traffic is a good way to practice "SERENITY NOW!"

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[–] ZardoZ2017 ago 

I think there is 7,3 billion different forms of enlightenment. I'll give you some of my own enlightenment: Don't be pretentious; Don't expect too much from others or yourself; Never postpone anything you know can be done right away. Always wash your feet,hands, hair and have clean short nails before a date. Never trust a fart after eating chili con carne; Always eat parsley when eating onions and garlic; Everything has a price;

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[–] Reddiggoat ago 

So how do you guys feel about the concept?

It's one of many tricks religions use to hook people for life. The victim is kept reaching for an unattainable plateau, pressured with stories of saints and other mythical figures who've supposedly attained it.

Along with the process comes compassion, forgiveness, lasting happiness, gratitude for all life, and really every positive emotion without any of the negatives.

IMO that just reads like a very poor sales pitch for a fix-all placebo. If people are willing to believe this, it's no wonder theistic religions still exist.

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[–] middle_path [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

What about Buddhism. It's inherently atheistic and sees what the Buddha taught as practical life advice for happiness.

Nothing is being sold there.

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[–] Reddiggoat ago 

I think there is a major difference in trying to change ones self for the better and trying to emulate changes you've perceived others to make. I also think there is a big difference in bettering ones self and trying to reach a plateau or marker of bestness (or enlightenment). Maybe buddhism doesn't sell their version, but many other religions make a ton of profit off this idea.

I also believe negative emotions can be very beneficial to helping build life the way you want it. Kind of like a "without evil there can be no good" kind of thing, "bad" emotions will contrast the "good" and you're able to make personal decisions of likes and dislikes of the actions of others around you. It keeps you from being taken advantage of and helps you to succeed. In real life, people without these "bad" emotions are called sociopaths.

Will meditation and self-betterment lead to one being a sociopath? I doubt it, but ultimately that's what will happen if you actually end up eliminating all negative emotions.

TL/DR - I think "enlightenment" is a sham, but I don't think moving that directions for your own personal reasons is bad.

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[–] libby 2 points 1 point (+3|-2) ago 

We're just squishy meatheads. We come up with nomenclature to categorize subjective experiences in order to facilitate useful communication.

It's a fact that there are things associated with enlightenment like suffering, compassion, understanding, acceptance, etc. and it's a fact that these are experienced on a spectrum of intensities with varying frequency by different individuals throughout their lives.

Is there something that can be done that causes a state change in a person's mind where those enlightenment qualities start occurring significantly more frequently and intensely all at once, such that a clear distinction between enlightened and unenlightened can be made? Probably not. People tend to exist far more on a continuum than that. Is it possible to achieve that kind of mental state at all? Probably so; it should be possible to reach almost any arbitrary combination of those experiences.

Because it can be used to describe a mental state, I think enlightenment can be a useful concept. But like the pieces composing it, it's probably best described as a continuum. The specific combination is also probably not particularly special, and substantially similar states that lack some features of enlightenment and/or include additional features are probably just as likely.

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[–] Fotan 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago  (edited ago)

I don't think there's a point where you become more than what you are, but I do think that there are various real flashes, or insights that are incredible, meaningful, and powerful.

So yeah I'm saying I think we do have peak spiritual moments but that also we have mundane everyday moments as well, and I think that goes for everyone.

I think Hinduism, Taoism, and zen all talk about these type things without saying you're suddenly going to become a permanent superman.

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