[–] libby 2 points 1 point 3 points (+3|-2) ago
We're just squishy meatheads. We come up with nomenclature to categorize subjective experiences in order to facilitate useful communication.
It's a fact that there are things associated with enlightenment like suffering, compassion, understanding, acceptance, etc. and it's a fact that these are experienced on a spectrum of intensities with varying frequency by different individuals throughout their lives.
Is there something that can be done that causes a state change in a person's mind where those enlightenment qualities start occurring significantly more frequently and intensely all at once, such that a clear distinction between enlightened and unenlightened can be made? Probably not. People tend to exist far more on a continuum than that. Is it possible to achieve that kind of mental state at all? Probably so; it should be possible to reach almost any arbitrary combination of those experiences.
Because it can be used to describe a mental state, I think enlightenment can be a useful concept. But like the pieces composing it, it's probably best described as a continuum. The specific combination is also probably not particularly special, and substantially similar states that lack some features of enlightenment and/or include additional features are probably just as likely.
[–] middle_path [S] 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago
My understanding is that it is a higher form of consciousness that allows one to truly understand the world, and not see it through the lense of perception.
I feel it's kind of like sex. If someone has never had an orgasm, the idea of sex is confusing. It may be somewhat understood on an intellectual level, but until you finally do it - you'll never understand it.
[–] middle_path [S] ago (edited ago)
I don't think Jesus or Buddha were Douches about it.
I always loved the phrase "if you put all the masters in a room, they would agree on virtually everything. If you put their followers together, a war would break out."
[–] 9176350? 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
if you put all the masters in a room, they would agree on virtually everything...
This is a very strange phrase, do you know where it comes from? It is very perennial and I don't think it jives with the historical record nor how scriptures themselves depict the "masters".
[–] Kromulent 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
There do not seem to be very many Westerners who have credibly managed the trick. It seems somewhat less likely than winning the Powerball.
There's a lot of good than can come from exploring your mind and sorting yourself out, and it can be a very worthwhile thing to pursue for as long as you'd care to pursue it. But I think the idea of enlightenment is a myth.
[–] middle_path [S] ago
But I think the idea of enlightenment is a myth.
Why do you feel this way?
[–] Kromulent ago (edited ago)
Because we don't have any Westerners who have credibly managed it, as I've said.
Of course it depends what your definition of enlightenment is; there are certainly some folks who are unusually happy, and unusually kind, and who seem remarkable to those who know them. I suspect that many of these folks could't tell you the basics of any Eastern philosophy; they might have found their own way to an enlightened end, or they might just be on the long tail of the bell curve for no reason at all.
But I have never met, and never heard of, any living, accessible Western person who could credibly claim to have achieved enlightenment by following an Eastern Spiritual path to that goal. Some have become happier, healthier, better people, but enlightened, in my mind, suggests something more than that.
[–] Fotan 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago (edited ago)
I don't think there's a point where you become more than what you are, but I do think that there are various real flashes, or insights that are incredible, meaningful, and powerful.
So yeah I'm saying I think we do have peak spiritual moments but that also we have mundane everyday moments as well, and I think that goes for everyone.
I think Hinduism, Taoism, and zen all talk about these type things without saying you're suddenly going to become a permanent superman.
[–] goatboy 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
If one could seek enlightenment, could one also seek endarkenment?
[–] xenoPsychologist ago
if one did that, they might also switch from baking cookies and cooking bacon to baking bacon and cooking cookies. and we cant have that. it would just be wrong.
[–] middle_path [S] 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Sure. Unconsciously I feel a lot of us do. Nice shower thought.