[–] zen_music 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
Guerilla, your assessment makes so much sense to me. I wonder how long this kind of clear thinking will be called "conspiracy nuttiness". I really hope there is a way for you Grecians to counter the sellout to corporate rule. I'm not hearing anything elsewhere in the world that works; these trade deals are making me very suspicious. I've been called a 'tin-hat brigade' member for such thoughts before; but as the saying goes, "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean somebody isn't following you!"
[–] Guerilla 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago (edited ago)
Yeap, it's not a coincidence TPP and TTIP are both being pushed to humanity at the same time, it's the final act of the ruling class for a complete corporate takeover. And yes, what Klein wrote in her book weren't conspiracy theories, they could classify as theories if neoliberals hadn't used the same strategy repeatedly hundreds of times all over the world since the 70s. When it has been witnessed so many times though it's no longer a theory, it's just an observation of an obvious pattern.
[–] borderpatrol 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Good for you. It's going to be a hard struggle, but I'm wishing you the best of luck.
[–] abear 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I think that Euro is a disaster of a currency that no sane economist would have ever approved before an actual political and economic unification of Europe so the only logical assumption that I can make is that they wanted this.
The problem with this was goldman sacs helping the government cook the books to make greece look attractive to the economists when this whole plan was being written out.
here is an article from 2003 which called out the deals as janky at best and corrupt at worst.
[–] Guerilla 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago (edited ago)
The scumbags at Goldmann Sachs did create a problem but the main problem is euro; Italy, Ireland, Spain and eventually France have the exact same problems and austerity makde matters even worse. Not to mention that EU already knew everything about the scam and purposely played dumb.
[–] Rea11yN0tMe [S] 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I agree that the Euro was a bad idea. Such disparate economies as Greece, Italy ... on the one side and Germoney, Netherlands ... should not share a common currency. For the one side the exchange rate is too high and for the other too low, same with interest rates.
About the other stuff you wrote though, I'm not so sure :-)
[–] Guerilla 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago (edited ago)
I'm not sure either, it's just the only logical assumption I can make. I'm not an economist and I knew it was a horrible idea from the very beginning so either the people governing us have the IQ of a gorilla or they had other plans. The logic is simple btw I can explain this to you in a few lines. Countries who have control over their currency can devalue it in moments of economic crisis by printing money. This process is great for the economy in two ways, a) you print money which you tunnel in the local economy boosting the overall economy of the country and b) since the currency is now weaker exports increase further boosting the economy. All this is impossible under Euro, countries don't have control of their own economy and Euro itself is a ridiculously inflexible currency that has been compared to gold by many economists. So what happens during a crisis to not so stable economies? Chaos. This is the main reason why this was a disastrous idea, there are smaller ones too though.
So how the fuck could they not predict this? A 15 year old can reach the same conclusions if I describe this to him.
[–] Rea11yN0tMe [S] ago
If there was no downside to devaluing your currency, everybody would do it. But as I am not an economist either, I don't know what they are.
But I agree that it would be beneficial for Greece to devalue because of the crisis, but you can't because you share the currency with Germany. So the Drachma it is.
[–] Guerilla 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I went to Biome (a self-organized factory workers had ceased from the company after it failed to pay their salaries) to watch her speak about the book, she's awesome. I was so excited about it and I've been planning on reading the book for a while now but I had a backlog and my damn e-reader crapped out. I will definitely read it though, I love her books, they have changed my perspective on so many subjects.
[–] TelescopiumHerscheli 0 points 6 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago
I feel that you're probably right to vote "no", and I feel that the economic case against the Euro is strong. Specifically, I feel that the Euro Zone is not a "natural single currency zone". If Greece does leave the Euro it will face a difficult few years, but with time and hard work it should be possible to recover. That said, I feel you're wrong to cite Naomi Klein's conspiracy theories. I feel it's better to understand the Euro in the context of a specifically Germanic understanding of economic and social union that arises out of their particular history over the last few centuries, and in the context of a deep-seated French desire to (a) bind Germany and (b) yoke their economy to another large economy out of a desire for (economic) stability. In this context the Euro is not a "neoliberal" project but a profoundly "social liberal" one, but it is also a project that allows Germany to indulge in its long-suppressed desire to build an empire around itself. On balance I agree that Greece was on the road to becoming a colony, but not, I feel, of "corporate interests", but of Germany. The same is true of Italy, Spain and Portugal: unless they leave the Euro Zone they will slowly turn into German economic colonies too. Just be careful that you don't fall into the arms of a worse colonial power.
[–] Wafflebutt 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
Your last sentence is the scary one. There are other countries and corporate oligarchies out there who might bring worse to the table. If Greece chooses to exit, it will be good for them to stay strong and fight for their independent economic survival.
[–] TelescopiumHerscheli 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
The obvious risk is Russia.
[–] Guerilla 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago (edited ago)
I honestly don't know where Germany begins and corporate/banking interests end so yeah, you're right too. Merkel is such a ridiculous corporate puppet that whether you say Germany or corporate interests it's pretty much the same.
I completely disagree with the social liberal part though. That's what they sold to their people, a supposedly peaceful union of nations; in reality it's a union of banking and corporate interests waging war on the European middle and lower classes, USA style. It's a undemocratic union of ruling classes conspiring to screw us over and it's exactly how it was designed. Brussels nowadays is a city plagued with lobbyists constantly influencing politicians and EU decisions.
[–] pH_ 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
On the other hand, it sounds like a good day to be German