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[–] rwbj 5 points -2 points (+3|-5) ago  (edited ago)

Without approving of what the guy is doing, I think being upset at him is pretty silly. He's older and probably has minimal to no skills. Instead of earning $7.50 an hour and living in poverty he's doing something legal that actually helps him provide for himself. Isn't the whole point of capitalism and free market that people are free to do what makes them the most money?

Just pointing out the irony as I'm sure the guy upset considers himself a true advocate of the free market... when that is exactly what this is. When begging gets you more money than low skill jobs - you get beggars.


Since this is the sort of comment that's likely to get downvote brigaded on Voat for wrongthink, I'm going to dump all replies in a single post.



Response to Broc_Lia's comment

The irony was not in what he was doing but why he was doing it. He's essentially jealous that somebody is making money begging than doing "honest" work. He's not upset at the fact that he gets paid scraps for "honest" work, but the fact that our socioeconomic system holds there to be more value in sitting down with your hands out than "honest" work. In laissez faire economics the natural equilibrium there would be reached not by somebody getting all emotional on a youtube video, but by this person realizing "wow, he makes more than I do by doing something I think is easier - let me do that." The increase in begging would reach a saturation point at which begging would become less productive than "honest" work. But, as usual, laissez faire works out in reality about as well as hunting trips for unicorns.

Another thing is that it's also not necessarily true that the individual here doesn't need charity to sustain himself. It may be that he is genuinely incapable of earning money in any productive fashion and begging is all he is capable of effectively doing - and the market overvalues 'charity' over the compensation of "honest" labor.

Finally let us not even get into the weasel word of value. It's invariably used in no way concrete way but simply to try to sound logical while arbitrarily defining it to whatever makes your argument go from illogical to logical. So for instance: The individuals donating to him see value in personal charity and displays of their religiosity. By facilitating this action he is providing a service of value. It's a terrible argument, yet no worse than any other than invokes "value."



Response to GumbyTM's comment

The reason citizen charity fails is because of this. The "real" person that needs, in general, isn't going to conveniently appear in front of your church. They're going to be in corners the people giving charity would never approach or in a hovel somewhere just trying to get by. This is exactly why systems like welfare and unemployment exist. Average people can't be expected to vet every person they want to donate to. And while government programs are also susceptible to abuse, they do an infinitely better job of it than you or I would. There's some irony in that churches tend to be politically in favor of parties that fundamentally oppose such systems, in favor of private charity which is frequently almost entirely wasted particularly at the individual level

Interestingly enough on the topic of zero sum game and charity inefficiency, the first numbers I found indicate that in 2015 Americans gave about $115 billion to religious groups. That would have been enough to provide a year of budget housing ($800/month) to 12 million people. The number of homeless in America is estimated at 1.5 million...

Response to GumbyTM's comment

You're ignoring all context and speaking in false dichotomies. One of the biggest differences between now and days past is simple population and urbanization. The vast majority of the country lives in ever more populated regions. In small towns people tend to do a much better job of working together and taking care of each other. As more and more people come together, this communal concern tends to fade. In large cities with ineffective governments you don't see people suddenly looking out for each other living happily every after - they tend to be crime and povery ridden shambles. As for government charities - I think one regulations requiring all individuals be granted emergency care at public hospitals, regardless of ability to pay, is one of the most effective forms of "charity" there is.

The point of the numbers I gave in the last response was in response to your assertion that charity is zero sum. The real problem is people being reckless with their charity. Whether they give it to the guy who conveniently begging outside the church or the guy preaching inside the church, very little of that money will ever go to people of substantial need.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Instead of earning $7.50 an hour and living in poverty he's doing something legal that actually helps him provide for himself.

He's not providing for himself. Providing for yourself is when you create more value than you consume. This guy isn't creating any value, he's fooling people into thinking that he has no assets and needs help.

Isn't the whole point of capitalism and free market that people are free to do what makes them the most money?

Yes. And one very important market function is communicating information about fraud. Like, for example, following a "homeless" guy with a camera and discovering that he's actually pretty well off and doesn't need charity.

Just pointing out the irony as I'm sure the guy upset considers himself a true advocate of the free market... when that is exactly what this is. When begging gets you more money than low skill jobs - you get beggars.

No irony. He's correcting the imbalance by making people more wary of beggars.

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[–] GumbyTM ago 

Re: Paragraph one.

Utter drivel and nonsense based on nothing but fees and the .gov narrative.

Charity existed long before it was co opted by the government which gave people a moral out about caring for their fellow mankind. (This is the most insidious aspect of .gov 'charity' which is never discussed.)

On efficiency and waste, go ahead and name a government 'charity' that is more efficient than the Mormon food bank. I'll wait.

Re Paragraph 2:

Aren't you a good little statist determining what is a legitimate destination for people's charity all while bitching they don't give enough.

Also, stop trying to shift your feeble argument to religion now.

And regarding the little PM you sent me where you whine about the lack intelligent debate and how no one here adds to the discussion, all while decrying how you aren't trying to be a martyr..... fuck you still.

And finally, I'm now up voting you because you because it appears your purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

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[–] GumbyTM 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Assume this is true. You're still dead wrong.

When those that can, don't, they are taking resources from those that truly can not. So long as need outweighs resources, this is a zero sum game.

Under your scenario this man is taking money from good citizens who would probably choose to give to someone more needy had they been informed of his true economic status.

Thus, this man places his comfort above the basic needs of others. And when people like you repeat this drivel you help victimize those that are in real need.

So with that in mind, fuck you.

Also, since you're in such a hurry to be a martyr, please be aware, you weren't worth down voting.

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[–] EdSnowden 1 point 5 points (+6|-1) ago 

I hate these fat fuck beggars more than almost anyone on the planet. They're always camped out by a Walmart begging for money for this and that or their kids or whatever. You know what? I don't have kids because I can't afford them. I don't fuck random women and beg people on the street to pay for my mistakes. Fuck them, and fuck anyone who gives them a dime.

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[–] Locked_Account 4 points -2 points (+2|-4) ago  (edited ago)

“He said to me he has no hope for living no more because his wife and daughter are dead.”

Heiser says his 68-year-old brother actually lives in that truck seen in the video when he can’t afford a motel room. He pays for the room with loose change.

“Everybody thinks there’s something underlying, like he lives in a mansion. There’s no mansion, he’s lost everything,” says friend Latasha Miller.

http://koin.com/2016/05/26/friends-family-come-forward-after-viral-panhandler-video/

Attack away, oh prescient judges of all men. The video's small minded, big mouthed "tattoo artist" videographer can be your leader.

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[–] DietCokehead1 [S] 1 point 6 points (+7|-1) ago 

No way was he living out of that truck. They showed the inside of the truck; brand new, clean, and there was hardly any personal property in the cab or bed of the truck.

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[–] Broc_Lia 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago 

I get homeless people living in their car. But if I became homeless and had an expensive car, the first thing I'd do is sell the car and (if necessary) buy a cheaper one.

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[–] Ciscogeek 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Yea. Those Toyota trucks have M A S S I V E resale value. Hell, the used 2009. Models are still going for $35k CAD. He could buy he could buy at a minimum 7 used minivans. Which would suit him far better for living than that.

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[–] Locked_Account 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

That would be a smart decision. But if your family are destroyed, and you get some tasty bit 'o mental illness you might not be so clearheaded and smart and strong. You have no clue what would be left of you to make decisions with.

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[–] FemaleVet4Trump 1 point 2 points (+3|-1) ago 

And dude doesn't even park in the lines.

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[–] DietCokehead1 [S] 1 point 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Fat, lazy piece of shit

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[–] HITTINGOPRAHDAILY 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

You can tell he's a complete fucking asshole just by the way he parks.

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[–] hairytale 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

It is a serious business. Often beggars pay to criminal groups for "protection" or to police for closing their eyes on law violation. In many cases they exploit toddlers.

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[–] What_was_that_2 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

White trash assholes, god I so dislike these bottom feeders that complain about how life has treated them. Hell everyone goes through tough time and depression but most don't go around trying to force others to fix my problems. If you can afford to have a car and an new one then there is no reason you cant get a job.