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[–] Stavon 0 points 12 points (+12|-0) ago 

The only thing to prevent a hive mind is to think for yourself. Don't only visit subverses and news sites which support your opinion, read news from different sources and be critical of all of them.

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[–] nilceps [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

What if I observe the hive mind in a community? The problem I see is as communities grow bigger recognition of other members is shrinking which means the barrier of falling into the blind punish/award protocol grows.

If I don't have the generally accepted opinion I might get punished by others by getting downvoted wouldn't my normal reaction then be "Well those guys don't like me guess I'll leave for something else" and even if people don't downvote me but I reach way less upvotes than another commenter that made a comment that the "hivemind" liked.

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[–] Porphyrogennetos ago 

All you can do is resist it.

Call out the hypocrisy, irony, double standards, logical fallacies etc etc

There's more than enough work to go around.

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[–] Stavon ago 

What if I observe the hive mind in a community?

If you recognize it, you're less likely to adapt to it.

The problem I see is as communities grow bigger recognition of other members is shrinking which means the barrier of falling into the blind punish/award protocol grows.

That's why people sharing an opinion gather and tell themself that this opinion is the right one. When the group grows it's now longer important who it is, as long as he belongs to the group.

If I don't have the generally accepted opinion I might get punished by others by getting downvoted wouldn't my normal reaction then be "Well those guys don't like me guess I'll leave for something else"

If your opinion is slightly off, you likely adopt, if it's far off you seek another hive with might fit better. The interesting states are inbetween, the insecure ones. Studies showed that the unsure members of a hive are most extreme in defending it and "missionaring" for it. Another part of unsures tries to rebel and see what happens.

even if people don't downvote me but I reach way less upvotes than another commenter that made a comment that the "hivemind" liked.

Negative feedback coming for the group identifing with is very strong, probably stronger than positive one. There is not much you can do about that, the human mind is not as smart as it thinks it is. All you can do is to be aware of the cognitive biases your brain suffers from.

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[–] FiftyShadesOfBlack ago  (edited ago)

I doubt it can be avoided. The algorithm (threaded comments, up/down votes, showing the comments with the most upvotes first, hiding the comments with more downvotes (does Voat do that?)) inherently leads to a hivemind.

The best way to resist is not to care about the imaginary Voat-points.

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[–] mAineAc ago 

and be critical of all of them.

This is the most important thing. Most people skip this step because they may overtly agree with something. They stop thinking about it and they don't carry the thought out to conclusion. Being critical of everything is the most important step and people tend to skip it.

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[–] humanmilkfarm 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Maybe don't show how many points a comment has until you vote on it? People are often easily swayed to one side if they see everyone else's vote so they can know how they should feel about something, and so they don't need to spend all that extra precious mental energy making their own mind. Votes can gain momentum.

edit: reddit has a similar optional temporary feature that has to be enabled on a per subreddit basis. I always thought something like this should be default permanently. Maybe allow a "show points" button if someone doesn't want to have to vote on every comment.

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[–] ColaEuphoria 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

On top of this, Karma shouldn't be seen as a total accumulation on users' profiles. It should remain localized to the context it took place.

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[–] BunceWaggon 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

That actually sounds like a really good idea

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[–] humanmilkfarm 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Wow, that almost makes too much sense.

[–] [deleted] ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] humanmilkfarm ago 

That's why I suggested a "show points" button that doesn't upvote or downvote.

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[–] nilceps [S] ago 

Couldn't this be easily exploited though all I would need to do is give an upvote look at the score and then form my decision around that? And what about cascading votes, i.e. "This guy has been downvoted before I know that he is wrong further down the thread.

I've seen some of the subs that used those features but they didn't seem to do much, maybe it's because the community has already settled and wouldn't change their opinion but I think the problem is still there with positive and negative reinforcement.

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[–] humanmilkfarm ago 

I guess if you consider your mind your own enemy, then it would make sense to call it an exploit. The point is help remind people to make up their own damn mind. Sometimes that extra barrier, however little, can make a huge difference.

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[–] FreshieD 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

To prevent hive mind, I think you have to start by identifying what promotes it. In my opinion, what promotes hive mind is karma-greed. People want big karma numbers because it's an ego boost. Saying a comment that you know other people agree with, in an environment where karma is free to give, results in more karma gained than stating an opinion that is polarizing and receives both up- and downvotes.

I think that the 100cpp requirement for downvoats certainly helps prevent hivemind. I've seen more interesting, lively discussion in a few days of Voat than I did in a year of Reddit. New users can't just sign up and start downvoating everything they disagree with. Were I the one in charge, I would probably take that even further. I would institute a policy of cpp as "vote currency"; with an upvoat costing you one cpp to give, and a downvoat costing 2, or maybe even 3 cpp. I'm not sure if that would work as I've never seen a site work that way, but it would be different, and I think it would be worth the experiment.

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[–] Arotaes_Forgehammer 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

That would be cool, but eventually all CCP would be removed with no way to introduce it back, or collect in a few users (ahem /u/_vargas_)

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[–] FreshieD ago 

Perhaps add in that you always get a certain amount of free upvoats per 24 hours, much like how new users now get 10 or 20. That keeps fresh cpp coming in, but keeps upvoats still high enough value as to not just throw them about for any little thing you agree with and downvoats valuable enough to only really use them for complete toolbag posts.

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[–] FiftyShadesOfBlack 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Sorting comments by votes promotes hive mind too.

Also hiding comments with negative points, but I'm not sure Voat does that.

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[–] big_fat_dangus 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I'm getting sick of all these "how can we stop humans from acting on human nature?" posts. You can't, dude. What you can do, is speak your mind, and see what happens. People might agree, they might not. Deal with it.

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[–] nilceps [S] 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago 

Do you have no friends that have different political opinions? Do you just hang around with the people that agree with you? What I see what is see isn't humans being humans but communities showing weird mannerisms like saying "We are about discussions" while they are not.

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[–] big_fat_dangus 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I don't know what you're talking about, and it sounds like you don't either.

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[–] Sadistic_Bastard 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I was about to post the same thing. It's just how the human mind works, there's no way around that.

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[–] NicolaeCeausescu ago 

Exactly. No one has any kind of 'right' to have their views even acknowledged here. Make your statement, just like anyone else can. If it's not popular, fucking deal with it or go somewhere else. This is the type of shit that gives rise to places like SRS on reddit. Fucking STOP IT.

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[–] Limpingdead ago 

The reason why Reddit has a hive mind is that 70% of them hold similar beliefs. They seem to all hate organized religion, most of them seem to hate guns, many of them love cats. Far more then half probably voted for Obama twice. The only way to prevent a hive mind is to have a varied population. Any time where you have a very large majority it will happen.

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[–] Camels-n-Miller ago 

In reality the entire concept of /r/ and /v/ with the "Top" or "Hot" is the internet equivalent of an oxymoron.

We as users come here for content. Be it news, cat pictures, controversy, what have you. We are by default looking at the most popular items of said content based on other users "voats". Ideally that content should be the best, and most relevant to our need for stimuli.

Transversely our desire to see the particular content we desire impels us to up and down voat these submissions accordingly. In the desire to see the most relevant content to our personal desires we succumb to need to "fit in". If everyone else likes something we should inherently be interested and see what there is to like about it.

Some of that "everyone else likes it" comes down to social stigma, and need for acceptance that is a part of human nature. That need is greatest in the younger generations, and documented with the general concept of peer-pressure.

Emerging technologies and means of communication inherently attract the most technologically astute, and with the advancement of technology moving as fast as it has over the past 20 years shows the youth are the first to adopt new ways. Along with that new adoption comes new social norms. Those inherently cause behavior changes, and the eventual need for acceptance. That need for acceptance is what promotes and reproduces the "hive mind".

I'm not trying to say /r/ and /v/ are terrible, or anything like that. I want to suggest any successful collection on individuals on the internet is going to inevitably fall back to the social norm. Even adults still seek to be accepted in the normal state.

Avoiding the "hive mind"? It happens outside of the internet, and to even more extreme extents than being in negative karma or banned. It results in war, murder, and all manner of human suffering. We may idealize the concept of utopia on the internet, and it is a noble concept. Human nature shows though that it is really unobtainable. There will always be "karma-whores" in real life, and here. There will always be people that follow the flock (notice how many terms in the English language refer to this concept). If we really are in the Matrix then agent Smith's "Inevitability" would be quite different.

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[–] thebestjohn ago 

The only thing to prevent a hive mind is to think for yourself. Don't only visit subverses and news sites which support your opinion, read news from different sources and be critical of all of them.

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[–] kingkongsdingdong ago 

I think it would help of all comment scores were hidden and you couldn't see your total ccp in your profile. Then at least it would be less about internet points and more about contributing to the conversation. Of course, anytime something controversial is posted, it will be less likely to be seen because many people downvote on opinion alone, but at least no one will know others have downvoted.

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