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[–] Camels-n-Miller ago 

In reality the entire concept of /r/ and /v/ with the "Top" or "Hot" is the internet equivalent of an oxymoron.

We as users come here for content. Be it news, cat pictures, controversy, what have you. We are by default looking at the most popular items of said content based on other users "voats". Ideally that content should be the best, and most relevant to our need for stimuli.

Transversely our desire to see the particular content we desire impels us to up and down voat these submissions accordingly. In the desire to see the most relevant content to our personal desires we succumb to need to "fit in". If everyone else likes something we should inherently be interested and see what there is to like about it.

Some of that "everyone else likes it" comes down to social stigma, and need for acceptance that is a part of human nature. That need is greatest in the younger generations, and documented with the general concept of peer-pressure.

Emerging technologies and means of communication inherently attract the most technologically astute, and with the advancement of technology moving as fast as it has over the past 20 years shows the youth are the first to adopt new ways. Along with that new adoption comes new social norms. Those inherently cause behavior changes, and the eventual need for acceptance. That need for acceptance is what promotes and reproduces the "hive mind".

I'm not trying to say /r/ and /v/ are terrible, or anything like that. I want to suggest any successful collection on individuals on the internet is going to inevitably fall back to the social norm. Even adults still seek to be accepted in the normal state.

Avoiding the "hive mind"? It happens outside of the internet, and to even more extreme extents than being in negative karma or banned. It results in war, murder, and all manner of human suffering. We may idealize the concept of utopia on the internet, and it is a noble concept. Human nature shows though that it is really unobtainable. There will always be "karma-whores" in real life, and here. There will always be people that follow the flock (notice how many terms in the English language refer to this concept). If we really are in the Matrix then agent Smith's "Inevitability" would be quite different.

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[–] RipSteakface 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

By not downvoating comments you disagree with. Use your downvoat to sort relevance. If you disagree with something, reply to the comment. Have a conversation, maybe see their point of view and why they believe what they believe. Otherwise, the top comments will always be a circlejerk of the most politically correct thing to say, and any real depth in controversial questions is lost.

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[–] vudu 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Upvoat things you disagree with!!! As long as it creates conversation

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[–] AlderaanDuran 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Honestly, on any site that keeps track of "points", it's impossible. Many people don't like getting downvoted, so they will tend to withhold comments they know would be unpopular. This means that "popular" comments dominate. If there's a circlejerk going on about how much Reddit sucks, and how banning FPH was a violation of free speech, a comment coming in and saying "It was a toxic community and I agree with the banning" would be heavily downvoted. And that's just one relevant example. So, people refrain from posting that sentiment. So all your left with is the circlejerk/hive comments getting heavily upvoted.

That's the one problem with sites like voat and reddit, the "points". Not all of us care about them, I don't. I've taken plenty of downvotes on here for unpopular opinions and don't care. So have many others. But there is a large majority of people who care about upvotes, and more importantly don't want to get downvoted. So they withhold comments. In the end, that prevents true discussion, and what you're left with is a comment that everyone agrees with, followed by a bunch of other comments that are "Yeah, I know right!?" All of them getting upvoted.

So, I don't have an answer, but displaying points and keeping track of points is like keeping score for a lot of people. It will guide discussion whether that is the intent or not.

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[–] Chub ago 

Immediately ban whoever makes a reference or pun

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[–] thebestjohn ago 

I can never understand why people don't like puns.

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[–] kingkongsdingdong ago 

I think it would help of all comment scores were hidden and you couldn't see your total ccp in your profile. Then at least it would be less about internet points and more about contributing to the conversation. Of course, anytime something controversial is posted, it will be less likely to be seen because many people downvote on opinion alone, but at least no one will know others have downvoted.

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[–] FreshieD 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

To prevent hive mind, I think you have to start by identifying what promotes it. In my opinion, what promotes hive mind is karma-greed. People want big karma numbers because it's an ego boost. Saying a comment that you know other people agree with, in an environment where karma is free to give, results in more karma gained than stating an opinion that is polarizing and receives both up- and downvotes.

I think that the 100cpp requirement for downvoats certainly helps prevent hivemind. I've seen more interesting, lively discussion in a few days of Voat than I did in a year of Reddit. New users can't just sign up and start downvoating everything they disagree with. Were I the one in charge, I would probably take that even further. I would institute a policy of cpp as "vote currency"; with an upvoat costing you one cpp to give, and a downvoat costing 2, or maybe even 3 cpp. I'm not sure if that would work as I've never seen a site work that way, but it would be different, and I think it would be worth the experiment.

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[–] Arotaes_Forgehammer 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago  (edited ago)

That would be cool, but eventually all CCP would be removed with no way to introduce it back, or collect in a few users (ahem /u/_vargas_)

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[–] FreshieD ago 

Perhaps add in that you always get a certain amount of free upvoats per 24 hours, much like how new users now get 10 or 20. That keeps fresh cpp coming in, but keeps upvoats still high enough value as to not just throw them about for any little thing you agree with and downvoats valuable enough to only really use them for complete toolbag posts.

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[–] FiftyShadesOfBlack 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Sorting comments by votes promotes hive mind too.

Also hiding comments with negative points, but I'm not sure Voat does that.

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[–] big_fat_dangus 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

I'm getting sick of all these "how can we stop humans from acting on human nature?" posts. You can't, dude. What you can do, is speak your mind, and see what happens. People might agree, they might not. Deal with it.

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[–] NicolaeCeausescu ago 

Exactly. No one has any kind of 'right' to have their views even acknowledged here. Make your statement, just like anyone else can. If it's not popular, fucking deal with it or go somewhere else. This is the type of shit that gives rise to places like SRS on reddit. Fucking STOP IT.

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[–] Sadistic_Bastard 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I was about to post the same thing. It's just how the human mind works, there's no way around that.

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[–] nilceps [S] 2 points -2 points (+0|-2) ago 

Do you have no friends that have different political opinions? Do you just hang around with the people that agree with you? What I see what is see isn't humans being humans but communities showing weird mannerisms like saying "We are about discussions" while they are not.

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[–] big_fat_dangus 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

I don't know what you're talking about, and it sounds like you don't either.

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[–] humanmilkfarm 0 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago  (edited ago)

Maybe don't show how many points a comment has until you vote on it? People are often easily swayed to one side if they see everyone else's vote so they can know how they should feel about something, and so they don't need to spend all that extra precious mental energy making their own mind. Votes can gain momentum.

edit: reddit has a similar optional temporary feature that has to be enabled on a per subreddit basis. I always thought something like this should be default permanently. Maybe allow a "show points" button if someone doesn't want to have to vote on every comment.

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[–] ColaEuphoria 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

On top of this, Karma shouldn't be seen as a total accumulation on users' profiles. It should remain localized to the context it took place.

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[–] BunceWaggon 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

That actually sounds like a really good idea

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[–] humanmilkfarm 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Wow, that almost makes too much sense.

[–] [deleted] ago 

[Deleted]

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[–] humanmilkfarm ago 

That's why I suggested a "show points" button that doesn't upvote or downvote.

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[–] nilceps [S] ago 

Couldn't this be easily exploited though all I would need to do is give an upvote look at the score and then form my decision around that? And what about cascading votes, i.e. "This guy has been downvoted before I know that he is wrong further down the thread.

I've seen some of the subs that used those features but they didn't seem to do much, maybe it's because the community has already settled and wouldn't change their opinion but I think the problem is still there with positive and negative reinforcement.

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[–] humanmilkfarm ago 

I guess if you consider your mind your own enemy, then it would make sense to call it an exploit. The point is help remind people to make up their own damn mind. Sometimes that extra barrier, however little, can make a huge difference.

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