[–] bikergang_accountant 3 points -3 points 0 points (+0|-3) ago
The people claiming that no discussion of possible leads is allowed because everything has to be proven first before it can even be discussed, I will bring this up to you.
You want people to abide the rules of pizzagate while they are guests here, but consider that pizzagate itself is a guest here. If you can form expectations of their posts then we can form expectations of your rules. This is not reddit. We don't have power mods. If you have a problem with other people's free speech you can go somewhere else.
[–] Phobos_Mothership [M] 8 points -1 points 7 points (+7|-8) ago
The main pizzagate sub is for research and investigation backed by sources so that the community can investigate things that are true leads. Speculation and open-discussion are why we created v/pizzagatewhatever and v/askpizzagate
[–] Millennial_Falcon [M] 9 points -2 points 7 points (+7|-9) ago (edited ago)
Deleting per rule 2 and 4. No sources, and meta concern posts don't go here. By the way, the real shill problem we are having is people posting shitposts, not the mods. The mods are protecting the quality of the sub. Shills attack the mods to create distrust and disruption. Their methods are disrupt, deny, and discourage.
[–] bikergang_accountant 3 points -3 points 0 points (+0|-3) ago
Meta very much should be able to be discussed in a thread.
[–] Millennial_Falcon 8 points -2 points 6 points (+6|-8) ago
Allowing these concern posts would be a slippery slope. For one thing, it would give shills an opening to spam concern posts to try to disrupt the sub.
Not to mention: OP didn't even make a argument to support his complaint about the rules. The truth is that the rules haven't change significantly. The only significant change is that sources are required for claims of fact. Also, the impetus for rule change, and asking the community to weigh in on rules, came from kevdude (of protectvoat) himself. The point is to have a small number of clear rules that can be consistently/fairly enforced.
[–] 7405486? 1 point 0 points 1 point (+1|-1) ago (edited ago)
Many (myself included) were expecting that when this leaked we'd see something more substantial that emails and code words. We expected that within a few days or weeks we'd have victims coming forward (we're going into months at this point).
Until we see people coming forward with (or leaking) video evidence that implicates individuals it'll become more and more difficult to actively support pizzagate.
I'm not contributing to the downvoating, but forgive me if I stop being interested until more substantial evidence is presented.
Where would victims go, how would they come forward? I believe there have been a few people who have made posts saying they were victims. But it's not like if they call the New York Times or CNN they'll be listened to, and they are probably not very trusting of the police given how LE has been implicated from the bottom up. Plus it seems Wikileaks has been compromised, or even if it hasn't, the rumours that it has been are everywhere, so if I was a victim I wouldn't want to go there.
I think we should somehow set up a way for victims to speak out and submit evidence if they have any, kind of like a wikileaks thing. No idea how to do it safely and effectively, but it could be like a proper citizens organisation - no links to any government agencies or departments, no links with or sponsorship from big business, no involvement with any corporate/mainstream media - just 100% nice normal people wanting to help each other out. The main problem is ensuring only nice normal people get involved with it. I actually think this is one of the most important things that should have been set up ages ago.
Creating a group like you're describing could too easily be corrupted. Those involved have connections, but they can't be everywhere.
Most people in law enforcement try to do the right thing and could be trusted as long as you kept working with the same people (avoid getting handed off). Going on liveleaks with a statement of being raped and naming names would also be a decent action.
I'm genuinely surprised none of the honest and moderate papers tried to be safe havens. Without someone in the media to give you a positive voice and make connections (or at least give this an honest listen) the PizzaGate group will fail.
[–] shakethetree 1 point 0 points 1 point (+1|-1) ago
I am not sure this sub is the legit place to stay any longer. Today my post was flagged as "Possible Disinformation" without any notice or discussion. I have yet to hear back from one single Mod on the grounds for the mislabel. It is titled as follows: "Pizzagate Represents Only a Single American Franchise Within a Worldwide Child Trafficking Operation Known As Pedogate" and is found at https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1522318. My post of last week titled as follows: [Testimonial] I Was a Sex Slave to Europe's Elite at Age 6, was deleted under questionable violation of the rules. Found here: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1502398. Turns out the user named Gopluckyourself who aggressively petitioned to get my post on the testimonial deleted is now a Moderator!
[–] Millennial_Falcon 7 points -2 points 5 points (+5|-7) ago
I didn't put that flair on your post (https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1522318)), but I have removed it for you (see my comment in thread).
[–] [deleted] 0 points 4 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago (edited ago)
[–] SpikyAube 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I disagree- I've seen many posts that really undermine the investigation because they have no substance, they have no evidence to back them up at all. Posting a link to a web site that makes a claim is no good unless that website states its sources or links to evidence.
If we don't do it properly and ensure that we are only making claims we can prove or suggestions that have a solid rationale behind them, the whole thing will become a total joke and a mess. I say that as someone who is a professional researcher - I know lots of people working here aren't professionals and haven't been trained so might not know why this way of doing it is so important, but it really really is. I think it's the opposite of what you are suggesting - the fact that mods here are strict about making sure people have evidence to back up their claims and assertions just goes to show that they want the investigation to be seen as legitimate by outside people.
It would be so easy for people to discredit everything and file it away as a lunatic conspiracy theory if they come here and read a ton of posts that are all wild speculation or have no sources or evidence linked. The thing that makes people get that realisation that 'oh my god this is actually true, pizza gate is real, this stuff is really happening' is the EVIDENCE - it's seeing posts that are clearly written by people who are not crazy, people who have done a lot of work and have actually found out real facts, facts they can even see for themselves by following the links to the evidence.
So I think your worries are unfounded. There are other subs where people can post any and every theory- this is the one where the facts go, where we consolidate what it is that we actually know for sure and present it as coherently as possible. I think that makes complete sense.