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[–] o_V_o 1 point 3 points (+4|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Does anyone actually say that though?

While it may not be a "choice", you aren't really "born that way" either. Were you born to prefer your favorite color, food, song? Was that preference a "choice" or a by-product of experience? The very concept of "preference" implies experience (to some degree or another.. which means everything from merely hearing someone talk about it to having personal, first-hand exposure).

Not to mention that the whole "born that way" thing was just a reaction to religion/the church claiming it was a "choice" (which is, ironically, the more liberal stance.. choice? what's that?!)... when, really, they were saying that it was a "choice" to do your part to help keep up the numbers of their particular tribe/religion.

It's just like being against eating pork.. at one time there was a good reason for it — just like there was a time when non-reproductive sex was actually a waste of resources. Whereas today, pork is a lot safer to eat and limiting reproductive sex is actually the more socially responsible decision.

Personally I'm all for gay sex, but I don't think attaching it to an identity is healthy... especially when you're pushing it on kids who don't know themselves yet — everyone goes through awkward stages were they feel like they don't fit in with the expectations whatever group (be it your classmates, or "men"/"women" in general)... that doesn't mean that you're in the wrong body, or that you're supposed to act a specific way, or that you must like certain other unconnected things that just happen to be part of the "lifestyle" characterizations being applied to you (which is directly tied to the commodification of identity politics that went mainstream in the 90s).

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[–] Yamajac 1 point 4 points (+5|-1) ago 

Being gay is not a choice, at all. You are born that way.

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[–] jibrish 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

That hasn't been proven. I'm not taking a stance on the issue but if you're going to talk about it then be correct. There's suggestive evidence but nothing concrete or even all that close.

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[–] o_V_o 2 points 0 points (+2|-2) ago  (edited ago)

Perhaps you could try harder to demonstrate for the class that you don't actually understand anything I said. If you're gonna pull this shit, might I suggest staying on reddit? So sick of dealing with thoughtless idiots like you... that 's why I left... of course your faggot ass had to follow suite. (yes, "faggot" in the old school sense.. "an annoying woman.").

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[–] bayesianqueer 1 point 4 points (+5|-1) ago  (edited ago)

Personally I'm all for gay sex, but I don't think attaching it to an identity is healthy...

The only reason that it's an identity is because of societies homophobia and heteronormativity. When I talk about the movie my husband and I went to last night and that he spilled a coke on me, I have two choices: either refer to him as my spouse and play the weird don't use pronouns game, refer to him as a friend, just not tell the story, or make the person I'm speaking to aware of an identity with which they pigeonhole me - their gay coworker. It only becomes an identity when others see you as abnormal.

While it may not be a "choice", you aren't really "born that way" either. Were you born to prefer your favorite color, food, song? Was that preference a "choice" or a by-product of experience?

A better comparison is actually our model of genetic disease. This is not to say that homosexuality is a disease, but genetics is still genetics. Say we are talking about the Breast Cancer (BrCa) gene. While women without the gene have a 12% chance of getting breast cancer in their lifetimes, women who have that a harmful BrCa 1 mutation have about a 50:50 shot of getting breast cancer in their lifetimes. Now of women with that mutation, about half never will. There are other influences too, diet and exercise, hormone use, and today whether one gets a prophylactic mastectomy. So whether or not a woman will get cancer can't be predicted with certainty. However, we know that some women (with certain BrCa mutations) were born much more likely to get it. Moreover, while there are a myriad of things an individual woman can do to increase or decrease her risk over a lifetime, they can't choose to not get cancer.

With homosexuality, there are some genes that strongly predispose to homosexual orientation. (If you are interested google: gay uncle gene, or CAH in Ashkenazim women.) There is certainly some influence that happens before and after birth, but pretty much by gradeschool, the die has already been cast. Moreover the things that we know that predispose to homosexual orientation aren't exposure to LGBT people.

especially when you're pushing it on kids who don't know themselves yet

It doesn't matter if you "know yourself" at age 10. Exposure to gay adults doesn't influence kids to become gay any more than exposure to straight adults makes them straight. Hell, most gay adults are the products of very straight parents and were raised in environments where almost everyone appears straight. When I was growing up (70's and 80's in the south) the first time I remember meeting someone who was gay was when I was 17. I didn't know that faggot was derogatory toward gay men until I was a teenager.

However we do know that kids who have been exposed to LGBT people do end up a little different as adults. They tend to be much less homophobic in the same way that kids who grow up with positive experiences of people of different races are less prejudiced against POC.

that doesn't mean that you're in the wrong body, or that you're supposed to act a specific way, or that you must like certain other unconnected things that just happen to be part of the "lifestyle" characterizations being applied to you

I have never felt that way. In fact, if anything I have experienced pressure to be less stereotypically gay. Being 'straight acting' is considered a benefit by a lot of men in the gay dating scene. Sure, lots of us like to dress in rainbows and glitter for pride once a year, but I see that as no different from Mardi Gras in NOLA. (Having experienced both, I would say gay pride events are a bit more sophisticated and demure.)

edit: wurds

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[–] ReCat 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

If you don't think people say that, i am legitimately extremely surprised. Yes, they do. I personally know some parents who've told me that many times. :/

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[–] Rivarr 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

Fuck me. Are these commenters typical of what Voat's gonna be. Top comment - homosecxuality is a mental illness.

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[–] Sunnybrooke 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

The diversity of viewpoints is refreshing, yes?

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[–] Rivarr 0 points 5 points (+5|-0) ago 

As refreshing as hearing a creationist tell me the world is 6000 years old.

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[–] Mosin91 ago 

Maybe the more disruptive elements with fringe ideals think they have a chance to get in on a ground floor and establish the supremacy of their ideals in communities that don't share them?

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[–] jibrish 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Or a funny troll comment is getting upvoted.

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[–] ObscureReference ago 

I look at Marcus Bachmann and I think people can actively choose to be in a homosexual relationship or not. The 'be gay' part, that is really what you want to define that as. Of course when that phrase it used, it too often presumes homosexually is a sin, and is said by some judgmental ass.

To clarify, I believe people will have pre-existing dispositions, genetic or learned. But they also have free will. And it isn't my business what they decide on these personal matters anyway.

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[–] farmer- 0 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago 

i upped this post, but i am wondering why this is in the "atheism" subverse? I'm christian and I don't believe homosexuality is a choice. In fact id be more inclined to believe that sexuality exists on a spectrum where most people have bisexual tendencies. by posting this in atheism, are you implying that this is an anti-religious statement (because i don't see why it should be here otherwise) or are you just sharing it in the atheism subv because you just want to share an off topic idea?

Not trying to start a flame war, just genuinely curious. please refrain from aggressive responses ^_^

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[–] fruitViking [S] 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

It's because the vast majority of opposition to gay marriage is religious, and certainly all of the organizations trying to "preserve traditional marriage" are religious. (Unless you know of any secular ones? I've sure never heard of one.)

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[–] farmer- 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

ohhh, i see. fair enough!

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[–] suptech ago  (edited ago)

I'm not taking sides here, but her sign doesn't make sense? Have you ever heard anyone say "Being gay is a choice, so we shouldn't allow gay marriage"? Usually they're opposed to gay marriage because "it's against their religion", "sanctity of marriage", "unnatural", etc.

Am I the only one to notice this issue with her sign?

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[–] fruitViking [S] 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

Have you ever heard anyone say "Being gay is a choice, so we shouldn't allow gay marriage"?

Yes, I have. Many, many, many times, in fact.

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[–] suptech ago  (edited ago)

I see. That's kind of a non-sequitur. "Dating blondes is a choice, therefore marrying blondes should be banned"

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[–] Buzzfriendly 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

I think people are born to seek companionship. I think most people seek out the companionship that appeals to them. I liked large breasted women, was I born that way I got know fucking idea, but I ended up marrying a large breasted woman, actually I did it twice. I dated small breasted women but I ultimately I sought out the lager ones. I can't imagine someone telling me I should be with a small breasted and that I have a choice. Of course I have a choice and I choose large breasted women. Were I gay I suppose it would be a big dick. You like what you like. What does all of this mean to you? Nothing because it makes no difference in your life and you really should living your own life.

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[–] Mosin91 0 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago 

But teh Bible! And mah morals! And teh family! Wild goat sex in the streets with people marrying their toaster! Oh the horrors!

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[–] Buzzfriendly 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

I might just attend a wedding where a toaster is involved.

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[–] zealdna 0 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago 

What does this have to do with atheism ?

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[–] fruitViking [S] ago 

You don't know what gays have to do with atheism?

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[–] zealdna 0 points 1 point (+1|-0) ago 

That's right. I'm asking why a topic about gay marriage is on the atheist forum.

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[–] Fos 1 point 1 point (+2|-1) ago 

This is nothing to do with atheism, this place is already turning into reddit.

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