[–] fleas 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
Even if being gay was a choice...so what? What does that have to with the government regulating any relationships? Get the government out of the marriage business.
(Like most things it's probably a combination of genetics, environment and choice. The ratios can be debated but in the end it doesn't matter what they are.)
[–] WhoKilledMe 0 points 3 points 3 points (+3|-0) ago
When a conservative says "Being gay is a choice" it seems like everyone just gets caught up in all the great counterarguments they have for that claim. No one stops to think more fundamentally, "Okay, so even if that was true...so what, it wouldn't make it wrong to be gay."
[–] Omnipresent 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I never got to choose to be what I am... I was born an asshole. :(
[–] Buzzfriendly 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
I think people are born to seek companionship. I think most people seek out the companionship that appeals to them. I liked large breasted women, was I born that way I got know fucking idea, but I ended up marrying a large breasted woman, actually I did it twice. I dated small breasted women but I ultimately I sought out the lager ones. I can't imagine someone telling me I should be with a small breasted and that I have a choice. Of course I have a choice and I choose large breasted women. Were I gay I suppose it would be a big dick. You like what you like. What does all of this mean to you? Nothing because it makes no difference in your life and you really should living your own life.
[–] Buzzfriendly 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
I might just attend a wedding where a toaster is involved.
[–] AssicusCatticus 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
I think you need to update the sources on which you're depending. There is much evidence that being gay is neither a choice, nor a mental illness. The brain of an effeminate gay man is structured more like that of a straight woman, than a straight man; the brain of a masculine lesbian is structured more like that of a straight man, than a straight woman. The pheromone receptors in the noses of gay people are structured to respond to the pheromones secreted by the same sex. These are physical differences that are not governed by choice OR mental illness.
My son is gay, and there's no mental illness there. He's a completely normal kid who happens to be gay. Please educate yourself before you go labeling a whole segment of the population as mentally ill or defective.
[–] bayesianqueer 1 point 2 points 3 points (+3|-1) ago
Actually being gay isn't a mental illness. However being a sociopath is.
[–] umpaloompa 0 points 6 points 6 points (+6|-0) ago
Because being gay happens in almost all animal species..., why not by humans..
[–] Ayy_EllPao 2 points 2 points 4 points (+4|-2) ago (edited ago)
Some species eat their young or other animal's shit... why not humans?
[–] Sunnybrooke 0 points 4 points 4 points (+4|-0) ago
The diversity of viewpoints is refreshing, yes?
[–] o_V_o 1 point 3 points 4 points (+4|-1) ago (edited ago)
Does anyone actually say that though?
While it may not be a "choice", you aren't really "born that way" either. Were you born to prefer your favorite color, food, song? Was that preference a "choice" or a by-product of experience? The very concept of "preference" implies experience (to some degree or another.. which means everything from merely hearing someone talk about it to having personal, first-hand exposure).
Not to mention that the whole "born that way" thing was just a reaction to religion/the church claiming it was a "choice" (which is, ironically, the more liberal stance.. choice? what's that?!)... when, really, they were saying that it was a "choice" to do your part to help keep up the numbers of their particular tribe/religion.
It's just like being against eating pork.. at one time there was a good reason for it — just like there was a time when non-reproductive sex was actually a waste of resources. Whereas today, pork is a lot safer to eat and limiting reproductive sex is actually the more socially responsible decision.
Personally I'm all for gay sex, but I don't think attaching it to an identity is healthy... especially when you're pushing it on kids who don't know themselves yet — everyone goes through awkward stages were they feel like they don't fit in with the expectations whatever group (be it your classmates, or "men"/"women" in general)... that doesn't mean that you're in the wrong body, or that you're supposed to act a specific way, or that you must like certain other unconnected things that just happen to be part of the "lifestyle" characterizations being applied to you (which is directly tied to the commodification of identity politics that went mainstream in the 90s).
[–] bayesianqueer 1 point 4 points 5 points (+5|-1) ago (edited ago)
Personally I'm all for gay sex, but I don't think attaching it to an identity is healthy...
The only reason that it's an identity is because of societies homophobia and heteronormativity. When I talk about the movie my husband and I went to last night and that he spilled a coke on me, I have two choices: either refer to him as my spouse and play the weird don't use pronouns game, refer to him as a friend, just not tell the story, or make the person I'm speaking to aware of an identity with which they pigeonhole me - their gay coworker. It only becomes an identity when others see you as abnormal.
While it may not be a "choice", you aren't really "born that way" either. Were you born to prefer your favorite color, food, song? Was that preference a "choice" or a by-product of experience?
A better comparison is actually our model of genetic disease. This is not to say that homosexuality is a disease, but genetics is still genetics. Say we are talking about the Breast Cancer (BrCa) gene. While women without the gene have a 12% chance of getting breast cancer in their lifetimes, women who have that a harmful BrCa 1 mutation have about a 50:50 shot of getting breast cancer in their lifetimes. Now of women with that mutation, about half never will. There are other influences too, diet and exercise, hormone use, and today whether one gets a prophylactic mastectomy. So whether or not a woman will get cancer can't be predicted with certainty. However, we know that some women (with certain BrCa mutations) were born much more likely to get it. Moreover, while there are a myriad of things an individual woman can do to increase or decrease her risk over a lifetime, they can't choose to not get cancer.
With homosexuality, there are some genes that strongly predispose to homosexual orientation. (If you are interested google: gay uncle gene, or CAH in Ashkenazim women.) There is certainly some influence that happens before and after birth, but pretty much by gradeschool, the die has already been cast. Moreover the things that we know that predispose to homosexual orientation aren't exposure to LGBT people.
especially when you're pushing it on kids who don't know themselves yet
It doesn't matter if you "know yourself" at age 10. Exposure to gay adults doesn't influence kids to become gay any more than exposure to straight adults makes them straight. Hell, most gay adults are the products of very straight parents and were raised in environments where almost everyone appears straight. When I was growing up (70's and 80's in the south) the first time I remember meeting someone who was gay was when I was 17. I didn't know that faggot was derogatory toward gay men until I was a teenager.
However we do know that kids who have been exposed to LGBT people do end up a little different as adults. They tend to be much less homophobic in the same way that kids who grow up with positive experiences of people of different races are less prejudiced against POC.
that doesn't mean that you're in the wrong body, or that you're supposed to act a specific way, or that you must like certain other unconnected things that just happen to be part of the "lifestyle" characterizations being applied to you
I have never felt that way. In fact, if anything I have experienced pressure to be less stereotypically gay. Being 'straight acting' is considered a benefit by a lot of men in the gay dating scene. Sure, lots of us like to dress in rainbows and glitter for pride once a year, but I see that as no different from Mardi Gras in NOLA. (Having experienced both, I would say gay pride events are a bit more sophisticated and demure.)
edit: wurds
[–] o_V_o 2 points 0 points 2 points (+2|-2) ago (edited ago)
Perhaps you could try harder to demonstrate for the class that you don't actually understand anything I said. If you're gonna pull this shit, might I suggest staying on reddit? So sick of dealing with thoughtless idiots like you... that 's why I left... of course your faggot ass had to follow suite. (yes, "faggot" in the old school sense.. "an annoying woman.").
[–] Duke_Leto2 0 points 1 point 1 point (+1|-0) ago
So /v/atheism is a default here?
[–] Ayy_EllPao 2 points 2 points 4 points (+4|-2) ago
It's just as shitty here as it was on Reddit. Fucking online atheists are the worst, and I say that as an atheist.
[–] fruitViking [S] 0 points 2 points 2 points (+2|-0) ago
The worst kind of atheists are the ones who think they're so superior to other atheists.